I can’t commit to a havoc game unless it’s late at night where I have no distractions or responsibilities (kids are in bed, no deliveries, no work, etc). So I actually rarely get to play it despite wanting to (I find Auric quite boring these days).
The fear of messing up 3 peoples ranks because I had to drop out is not something I am comfortable with. I would be plagued with guilt. And it wouldn’t be fair on them.
So a quick play main board option, with no vile rank system to mess up, would be nice for a casual drop in with some actual challenge.
I would prefer player power to be merged, which is basically the same as adding another difficulty. If we add another difficulty I am all up for calling it uprising, because it won’t be the last and why not just circle through the names we have if we continue to circle…
Absolutely 100% hard no, and its easy to even prove.
Havocs existence is purely because of the sweatiest of sweat utter extreme end of r3tardely OP sh-t we have.
The removal of rending on dueling sword helped, now make soulblaze do fu-kall dmg to anything even remotely armored, making it the BEST staff against chaff but struggle against armored enemies.
Cap how much dot dmg a boss can take so its not about 9000 stacks of dots
Make shielded bosses not take tox dots as long as shield is up
Make smite stun small enemies but NOT stun elites+ (or give them stun immunuty after being stunned for couple seconds)
Suddenly entire meta collapses, havoc runs start to take 60+ minutes instead of <30
People who only play only havoc would at first be happy “yay finally its not about psyker” then that hour long slogs which would start to - very quickly - get on peoples nerves, as they would see, clear as day =
How INADEQUATE other weapons are at dealing with mixed sh-t hordes, how its all about abusing NOT playing the game
Then you will remove the havoc from the game → take the modfiers FROM havoc and give them as a OPTIONAL thing you can take - exactly same as in DRG, with increased rewards.
And people could FINALLY play the maps with the difficulty/fun as THEY want, not as RNG says they want
Oh and ranking system needs to go, 0 reasons whatsoever to have a system like that in darktide.
Nothing wrong with ***IN GAME LEADERBOARDS *** but any ranking/deranking is bad.
This isnt Mythic dung in WoW where it ACTUALLY GIVES REWARDS here its just that - lets abuse the living sh-t out of the most broken things we can take, in a broken game mode using modifier NONE of the game was designed around.
YEs with hour long matches, or stealth abuse, or running kiting through it (in a TIDE game), or using any number of infinite stagger builds
There are a couple people, handful from the active player base who have the time and commitment to do this. People who are so good they challenge themselves to waste 8 hours of losing to get one havoc where they win, and they use it for clips.
These people could do the exactly the same and MORE in my system. Where you would pick a map → difficulty → modifiers
But the devs would ALWAYS clearly STATE that they balance the game around auric.
Full clear h40 without speedrun + no psyker are done on the regular. No huge loss streaks, winrate fluctuating depending on our own skill+condition on any given day. Games take 40 minutes on average, 30 if fast (FULL CLEAR, no speedrunning) and only the very extreme ends are 60 minutes. I don’t know where you are getting the idea that h40 without psykers is only possible with stagger builds/stealth/speedrunning.
60+ minutes are for full clear duos. If all of your games look like this with 4 players (psyker or not) you have a build/pacing problem.
Anyway I came to this thread to support the idea of a new difficulty.
Especially if it’s implemented so that havoc-tiered difficulty makes it into quickplay. I made a comment about it here before I realized there was a thread in General about this same topic.
Not really. “Many” people is few content creators and their friend circles with fully premade teams.
In majority of public lobbies there are psykers on the team with flame staff. Most people pubbing Havoc only play 1-2 meta builds.
I don’t even remember when was the last time I saw Psyker with non-flame staff on my team who isn’t me. Maybe a few played m1 Surge build, but those were Psykers with thousand of hours, and surge Psyker can nearly replace Veteran with how fast they kill specials.
Hey man, have you maybe thought that every team has a psyker because it’s almost impossible to get a game without one? The only way is to either sit in party finder for 20 minutes or to get a friend group. You’re conflating the actual cause here with the symptom of a terribly designed system (deranking) that encourages people to play this badly balanced class. Maybe if we had havoc-tier quickplay this would no longer be an issue.
Also if you (or the people you are supposedly advocating for) really wanted a psyker, you can still use party finder. Nobody’s forcing you to use the new difficulty/quickplay system that’s being proposed.
Unfortunately the rest of us ARE being forced to use party finder. It’s literally the only way to play havoc without friends/discord. And this doesn’t even work very well because of the problem mentioned above (deranking fostering an unhealthy culture)
That 60 min number is after other changes are implemented
Once you HAVE to contend with bosses/elites, you would start needing HARD suboptimal builds like TH invis zealot. They could take knife flamer, but then you dont have “pasue game” button with choir, but then you are taing 2 zealots and not that they are bad, but there are BETTER classes out there.
But to make a long story short, my entire agenda is - havoc was/is/will be - objectively wasted dev time. Its a game mode which makes S+ tier sh-t mandatory, and makes non S tier things F tier.
Its a game mode where we have LESS things to play with, if we dont want to drag other people down. Its just a series of modifiers we cant take/leave as we please and tailor our gameplay, and its existence is PURELY because of things like dueling sword, needle, psyker, golden toughness, plasma, etc.
And de ranking, its darktides version of timer in mythic dungs in wow.
The amount of people in wow would INIFNITELY rather play with “deaths amount” instead of timer is 10 to 1. Same - if not more - is in dt, who wants to waste time losing AND on top derank?
I mean, at this point the power creep is sufficient that an additional difficulty might be the most realistic workaround, like it or not. I don’t love the idea on principle, I’d rather have auric be the challenge it’s meant to be, but when you keep buffing things non-stop, this is where you end up. Fatshark only have themselves to thank for that.
Also, the party finder and ranking system will forever keep me from touching havoc with a 10-ft pole. So I wouldn’t mind something a little more challenging that you can actually quickplay into.
Of course, if Fatshark had the requisite testicular fortitude, we would have a game that was closer to being balanced around auric as it is. And until we get an additional difficulty, that continues to be the goal IMHO. But we don’t right now, and an additional difficulty is probably an easier sell, cause you can mostly avoid the nerf-allergic crowd throwing an absolute hissyfit.
Remove infinite power from psyker.
Look at damage profiles, why does a RIFLE with RIFLE sized ROUNDS deal less damage than a PISTOL?
There are many such cases
Did you play the game on launch? Day 0 Damnation difficulty was plenty hard. Then they made Auric as people started to figure out how to play it. Then players got some buffs and maelstrom happened. Then even more buffs (in the form of talent trees) and then havoc was created. Very few patches had actual substantial nerfs (power sword power cycler nerf, recent uncanny strikes/voc nerf – but voc revive shout got a huge buff in exchange). If you calculate the number of buffs to nerfs (number of bulletpoints in patch notes) I would guess it’s about 50:1. And that’s a generous estimate. The power creep/low-end was SO BAD that they deleted the lowest difficulty (sedition?).
Havoc was indeed not a good use of dev time. But the player buffs already happened. Nerfs to revert changes aren’t happening so now we gotta keep havoc around. Unfortunately it’s a terrible system. We need to scrap it and turn it into a dedicated difficulty on the mission board.
How much longer must we deal with:
Blight being in rotation again
Too few maps in rotation
Deranking
Unable to pull in replacements/friends after people leave
Stale meta / elitist culture / needing to bring particular builds to even play (you can play whatever builds you want!!! No deranking, you’re free now!!)
Needing to grind aurics every community event, just to go back to havocs after
Level 1-30 being tedious (could be made less tedious by running the new difficulty level and switching chars at the end, instead of grinding stupid hardmode auric twins repeatedly which is asinine. Or we could run new havoc twins hardmode instead. Whatever, still an upgrade. Or FS could implement a quicker leveling system for those with 4+ level 30 chars, but that’s even more dev time, a hard sell)
Just scrap the map+modifier rotation system. Fatshark, you don’t have to maintain it anymore. Just add the difficulty to the mission board.
The game is MOST FUN in quickplay for many people. Quick game, in and out, and having teammates be a gamble each time. Dude. We could even bring the hardtide mod back (@badwin hope I tagged the right user, it’s a mod by him that keeps track of winstreaks which was a fun little tool)
For others who want to use party finder, you can keep that around. We don’t need to delete that (I won’t be using it anymore though)
Yes, but pls. no bullshyt penances like “True Survivor”, where you can’t do it with randoms and need premates, to do it.
Get me right: I’m all pro-teamplay, but if you fail a penances about 2 seconds before the win, because some random dude tries to play hero and kisses the ground - and that happened repeatly to me - you get a little miffed.
definitely nurgle approved.