From my point of view, Shotguns are great on veteran and on zealot but for total different reasons.
On zealot, you get a good weapon that you can switch to in no time. Best are the kantrael and lawbringer. I would say that the lawbringer is, since the introduction of new shotguns, less interesting. This is if you play your class and do 90% melee.
On veteran, every shotgun is great… I have one template that does great damages… I let others discovering it, but it is not the commonly meta blessings that everybody advice. Great feats for the shotguns are “tactical reload” that permit you to speed the reload (+20% to reload while there is at least one ammo in the weapon) and deadshot (great to make precision fires and critics).
The lawbringer is good enough on a veteran. It can deal with far away target and is good at close combat. Enough precise to kill lot of gunners, especially if you use “counterfire”.
The agri is so great on a veteran. The special is sort of sniper. It can stagger everything, especially bulwark.
The Kantrael… I was thinking it was a bad idea with a veteran… I was so wrong…
Revolver… well… how to say it? I loved revolver until I realize that… they are bad. Nothing to say more than that. That are less bad with a veteran, they can play their role with the zealot… but… they are so bad. I have one with hand canon and crucian roulette on my veteran. It can kill a crusher… but… the blessings were great on paper… in game they are absolutely useless. Off course you can snipe something far away with a revolver. You can also with an agri, but the agri has 13 bullets and its special can kill any special (sniper). And Revolver use so many ammos if you play your class. So, off course you can use it less and go melee… but why would I do that with a veteran on damnation difficulty??? On malice, ok… just for the fun… but on damnation? no way…
Of course I forgot to even mention it: kantrael shotgun is a no-brainer for zealots, so powerful you can half clip a mutant, kill a bulwark through it’s shield with special ammo (I find the latest a bit OP I hoped they would’ve patched it out tbh)
Honestly as a main zealot… The 200 base toughness of the veteran is so comfy… And when you get used to dodging you barely get hit with ranged attacks…
I agree with you, I’m a big fan of Vets with Shotguns, at least if you’re not on a super long range map. However, the problem with vet and not bringing a generic rifle weapon is that everyone relies on you to deal with shooters. While the shotguns can be decent at this job, certain maps or arenas can make it hard to do that
I don’t think its the best choice but it is so much fun.
I disagree with this, simply because in the future when we eventually get more classes they will likely have the same ammo pool as Zealot and Psyker (standard), and not have the ammo regen perk.
Hey… that’s cause you don’t use it with the same template like I do
You’ve got a point here. I did not think about that.
Then more reasons why we need more ammos on revolver, shotguns and infantry autoguns… that doesn’t change my opinion on this.
I think you’re right… the flame stacks and do too much damages at 2 hits. 1 hit does small damages, 2 and the life of bulwark vanishes. But, check in the training room, you will see that it is a feature. Only Ogryns get these insane damages with the special of the kantrael.
They could nerf it… I would continue to use it.
But I think you re not wrong on this. This seems a little too much these damages of the special on Ogryns.
Exactly! your analysis is 100% accurate, but yet you don’t take into account the whole picture. If you want full performance, you will just take OP bolter with OP powersword into damnation, and that’s it, end of story. Big numbers will shine on your screen as enemies explode while you shoot them. When I was running the bolter powersword build the bolter was so strong I was only using it. I was using bolter 99% of the time, and only drawing power sword when in need to deal with a horde or when out of ammo. It gives a great score at the end of a mission on the scoreboard mod, but appart from that, was it really necessary? As a reminder running a bolter is really heavy ammo wise for your team. Ok, it’s pure conjecture… But most of the time when you are killing an elite or special as bolter veteran there is already a teammate close to it that is kinda dealing with it. However when things go south, you often have to relocate very quickly, and that’s when the very low sprint speed/stamina count power sword/bolter gives you starts to become more of a handicap than anything else. I’m not saying that revolver is better than bolter but after 1000+ hours on the game i’m starting to have a more subtle approach to it. When your team go down it’ll happen in something like around 15 to 30 seconds. That’s the amount of time it can take between “everything is fine” to “everyone is dead or being eaten by a poxhound”. The total amount of damage you have done in the last 20 minutes is irrelevant at that point. Having the right tools to deal with the crisis will make the difference. Being able to magdump two mags of 15 bolter rounds is very useful don’t get me wrong. Sometimes you just want to run fast to go resurrect a teammate and quickly draw a revolver to knock that flamer/trapper on his ass while doing so
I was thinking that the “special burning buckshot that goes through walls fix” would also include “special shots would stop ignoring bullwark shields” because as of now it’s really too easy. Like “I don’t know how to deal with bullwarks I will just take a kantrael shotgun and shoot through their shields”
It took me many hours to know how to handle bullwarks with good positioning, learning their attack patterns etc… to damage them when they lower their guard…
Now I just have to take a kantrael shotgun… :')
LOL… check the thread about boltgun you will see people that affirm that a bolter and a PS are not OP weapons. They are perfectly balanced.
You seem to have the same bad analysis like I have… must be contagious
I can understand… as a player that used lot of time the revolver.
However, since I tried shotgun… well revolver seems really bad. Bolter is really op, we’re agree on this. So let’s avoid this monstrosity of the equation.
For me, bolter / shotgun / revolver are close. Revolver can cleave, shotgun cannot (at least normally), the 3 do big damages. Bolter is slower, shotgun doesn’t slow you, revolver is for fast gameplay. On this I agree.
Well, normally, when we (the team) fall, this is 100% of the time the error of the group. We were too confident, we split, we have not regrouped etc…
The shotgun permits to react at same time as it switches fast… however, true, you cannot run to a lost comrade. Cause, now, I begin to understand that, sometimes, to save the group, you have to let the foolish guy that wanted to rush… dying.
In my opinion, and there was a long thread about that, revolver needs two things to make it a good weapon (far away of the OP bolter, but a good weapon):
more ammos (I would say +50%)
increased weakspot damages (+15% or +20% - I would prefer +15%)
For shotgun I would say:
kantrael special is a little (and that’s irony - it deals insane damages!) too strong on Ogryns
Yes when you are playing with a well coordinated team and while being on vocals etc… Not with pugs like I do most of the time, mobility stat becomes much less of a necessity. Absolutely!
I said without a crit you can’t, and that’s true. And I know it’s true, because I went into the Psykhanium and did it! My point is it’s not consistent since you have to rely on crits.
Anywho, I don’t particularly care as much about the Revolver as I do the shotguns. I added it here because other people have expressed similar sentiments about its ammo reserve. I do think the magazine sizes for these weapons are fine. But I’d like to have more ammo for the shotguns to be able to clear shooters.
Thanks for recording that. Now I don’t have to. Lawbringer cannot at 60m. You’re looking at probably 3 shots ADS. But considering the first will stagger the sniper and the second might well knock it over, its not like its bad. It takes the sniper out of action immediately on the first shot and then you just have to finish it off.
My record lawbringer kill on a sniper was 101m with the sniper on the far side of the approach to hab dreyko and I was literally still on the starting dropoff.
or just use agri brace, because a revolver will take 10% of your ammo pool just to take out a single elite, while the brace can take out 4 with a single mag.
