And this is the big problem… anyway I could also be ok having Grail Knight paid, but the challenges should totally be included in the “base version”.
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This here is important. Fatshark never said that all future content will be free. This community often reads or hears something vagues and instantly jumps to conclusion. And later they are talking about broken “promises”. I don’t even know how someone could reach the conclusion that all future content will be free. The original statement does not support that.
Did Fatshark not meet some of their claims? Yes, Dedicated Server SUPPORT is probably the most infamous and deadlines is a notorious one as well. But a good chunk of the so-called broken promises were never promised to begin with. We could reduce some of the discussion in these forum if we all would just be a bit better informed (or read stuff more thouroughly). And this is still the better of the Forums. Don’t dare to go near the steam Forums or worse. That Level is not uninformed anymore but ill-informed.
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This is true, but you are forgetting that “we’ll never have microtransactions ingame” used to be one of FS’ promises. Then, they did a U-turn. While I can see why they’d want to do it, and they could have done it in worse ways, the lack of proper communication about it (whose effects we are feeling now) is quite severe, and not something to blame on forum’s users. In a way it’s pretty convenient to have said something vague which times later can be clarified. There was some uproar at the time, for the mere announcement there’d be microtransactions. I could search for the exact statement, but they drew a comparison to the arrogance lost dlcs (cosmetics) in VT1, saying it would be nothing new for the franchise. Now, what we are getting now is something new for the franchise, regardless of how you feel about it.
There would have been much more uproar if back then they had been clearer, is all i’m saying…
“We’ll never have microtransactions ingame” seems like a misquote, this was the promise from before the launch of VT2 as I remember it.
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Ok thank you, I remembered it a bit differently. I guess my definition of “loot comes from gameplay, not your wallet” is more clear-cut.
Imho though, P2W, in the context of a co-op game, is dangerously close to selling careers.
Edit: I’ve done some digging too. This is from the S2 announcement: (emphasis mine)
It seems to me to be strongly implied only cosmetics would be part of this premium purchase thing. (this has more to do with my ongoing argument than your reply)
So yeah it seems Steam removed the ability to download older depots (despite still having them) via this command,
So the alt solution I found is :
Is this the 3rd party tool you didn’t want to name ?
Well if the challenges offers cosmetics, that would make the “premium” version kinda bland to be honest.
Like I said, I don’t argue that there is stuff they failed at. But it is by far not as worse as you could think if you just read the flaming pits called forum. And yes, we should take the community (and as such ourselves) into responsibility to a certain degree. If I start making Claims about something I should inform myself before. As Iong as I keep my mouth shut it is okay to be uninformed. I think the community is trying to dodge the blame to often.
Ambiguity may be another problem. Concerning the microtransactions, I think you don’t remember it completely wrong. But just for clarification, this was the first interview on the matter:
Like stated, there is different stuff to argue about. For me, I always comprehended it as: “There will be no buyable stuff with a random result.” So to speak, I always know before hand what we get. Then there are the terms microtransactions and DLC. Grail Knight will be sold over Steam. So for me it is a DLC and not a microtransaction.
And just for completion’s sake here the interview as well:
Please note that in here they also only talk about Dedicated Server Support not Server themselves (ongoing argument not directed at you). Also, especially noteworthy:
" The original game launched with a few bugs – what is your goal for the condition of Vermintide 2 at launch?
Victor: As buggy as it can be"
Can’t say they don’t honour their promises.
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It really depends on how strong it ends up being.
Some weapons in past DLCs are or were so good that you could basically consider them P2W in comparison to the base weapons, many of which were left ignored by balancing and are super rare picks nowadays.
I wouldn’t judge them too much on the initial release balance because no internal balancing survives meeting real players, but if it’s blatantly stronger than other careers then we’ll have to wonder if that was intentional.
Fs never sayd ONLY cosmetics, the only way grail knight could be pay to win is when they nerv every other class in this game so hard that u can hardly do proper runs without a GK in ure team… and maby its gona be a strong class who cares? how u wanna sell a stupid weak class to ppl and when it’s to strong like BW a while ago they probably gona nerv it anyway after they get some good and constructive feedback.
So just wait until it’s out for a while and they get better data and see how he interacts with the other U4 in a team…
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I agree with what you said, just being devil’s advocate here: don’t you think making a weapon or career super strong to increase sales is a bit scummy? I know it’s just how bussiness works, i know they didn’t do that with everything as some weapons they released weren’t op.
The problem is that, in this way, you “”“force”"" not only those players interested in cosmetics… but who wants to complete Okri Summary too. Not much fair.
For example I don’t care about cosmetics… but after all my effort to complete every challenge, I would be a little bit “upset” to lose my 100% since there are premium challenges.
Basic version’s challenges could give weapons’ illusions, some “basic” cosmetics… or even simple emp vaults/comm chests (like every challenge untill now)… and then they can just give cool cosmetics (without challenges) with premium GK version.
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I could say i’m gathering money for charity: if I don’t say i’m giving all of it to charity am I entitled to keep most/part of it? I don’t think so.
The fact they only spoke of “a few select cosmetics” when talking about how they’d gonna change their future updates’ policy hinted that that would be the only change.
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I do agree that hypothetically doing this, on purpose, is quite scummy or shady. Just keep in mind that the keyword here is ‘intentionally’. Grail Knight can come out perfectly balanced and that’ll be that. Or he might come out weaker than most other classes because in their attempt to prevent power creep, they flat out made him weak. Or he can come out OP and stronger than most other classes, like most people fear.
And, personally, I’m sure that no matter how strong he comes out, Fatshark never would’ve intended him to be too strong, and that if he’s not balanced (either too weak or too strong), he’ll be eventually tweaked to be more in-line with the other careers. Specially since this has already happened in the past with some of the more out-of-line DLC content, like axe & falchion.
You can accuse fatshark of a lot of things, but not of being scummy, tbh.
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I was playing devils advocate, i agree with you.
Just to add. We don’t know if developers do it intentionally or not (talking in general not directed at fs). Even if they nerf it later it could of been done to increase sales.
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It’s a bit strange, as even if challenges were not linked to the premium dlc, it would still be linked to the basic one. Therefore the challenges stay linked to a DLC no matter what. In both choices.
The fact that you work for something hefty, a bragging right that you can show is, I think, better than just “giving them away”.
Red illusions behind “farm challenges” were well received. Even if thoses challenges were not that inspired, and problematic with the Throwing Axes =p.
IIRC, you quote comes from an article about selling lootboxes back during VT1. So far they’ve upheld that. They still haven’t sold “loot.” Just hats, maps, and now a career.
The thing about business plans is they grow and change over the years to adapt to an evolving market and playerbase. This is why industries watch each other and their industry news to see what is working and what isn’t.
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Sure is, doesn’t mean I have to like it.
There’s many ways to go about one thing, and what FS has being doing lately is too greedy for my liking. They can do it, just as I can stop supporting them.
And before someone intervenes saying there’s worse practices, I am aware, I’m not touching those companies’ products with a 9 feet pole.
Indeed the best solution would be that those challenges didn’t count for Orki Summary completation (like specific season 1 and 2 weaves’ challenges)… but that to reach the 100% I need the PREMIUM version of a PAID dlc… it feels to me wrong.
Ye, I can understand this point… even if we have to consider that, often, best cosmetics are just random (for example compare 100 victories Krub’s hat and golden panther one).
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You keep missing another important part of the puzzle. The premium cosmetics for unpaid content was something they wanted to try as a business model. They never promised that it was be here to stay. Maybe the premium hats didn’t sell good enough or maybe it worked out fine and they want to continue down that route.
On a side note, they certainly delivered when it came to the Drachsenfelt maps, in my opinion. But then again, my expectations were quite low at that point. And the season 3 update, well, we haven’t even seen the product yet.
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