It feels like any melee weapon without access to the falls behind fast in capability. The exceptions being things like the thunder hammer/combat knife in their own specialties.
To the point where I feel like these abilities should be baseline across all weapons.
I mean, they’re good, but not a hard requirement on all weapons.
My favorite melee weapon, the crusher, doesn’t even get access to any of those.
My ogryn clubs don’t, either, and they are truly not falling behind cleavers.
I can’t get bromentum on my ogryn thunder shovel, but it’s still miles better than the zealot thunder hammer.
Sure, it’s meta on devil claws, because devil claws have a polluted blessing pool with far too many impact blessings. And ogryn cleaver blessings are straight feast or famine as well.
Ironically I don’t think savage sweep is meta on anything anymore except debatably non crit build Evic.
I don’t really have an issue with any of those blessings though I do think blessing balance was better overall when rampage just gave damage and not power.
pretty sure you can, thats how people were 1 shotting 3x crushers at once
By can’t I mean the game’s RNG refuses. Tens of thousands of plasteel spent and can’t even get Hadron to give me t3 bromentum on thunder shovel. Best I’ve got is Thunderous and Skullcrusher and it still very much 1-shots most things I would like to 1-shot.
For TH there is shock & awe that is the BM… that doesn’t work cause of Fatshark that do not want to fix it.
And no, I don’t think like you. I think there are several blessings that need to become interesting. Lot of them have been interesting with the patch 13 and by a lot.
But there are still several that need something to be done.
One example: deathblow… this blessing is the BM of HS… well, it needs to be changed to something radically different (like what is perfect strike or something close)
Just an example… and won’t loose my time to write here a list… these things are often discussed here on these forums.
Making all the weapons with the blessings you quote, is a step in the wrong direction as it would push people for 2 blessings (this is already what happens, but cause people follow other opinions, if they would test they would see that a lot of interesting combinations have appeared since the patch 13)
Wait what? Rampage description still says dmg. Are you saying it’s Power now? That would be huge if that was the case!
Straight from the patch 13 notes:
They just never updated the description. Patch notes are worth reading thoroughly.
Half the reason cleave blessings don’t get run anymore on most weapons that have rampage. You’re usually getting good enough cleave out of raw power blessings on top of the damage and stagger.
Wow you’re right that makes no sense. Esp since Power doesn’t just do dmg & cleave but stagger too, and across all your abilities not just the weapon itself. I’d noticed some weapons like the new Evis is better with Shred & Rampage than a cleave blessing as before but didn’t realize this was at least part of the reason.
I gotta make some builds around this! Thanks for bringing it up!
IMO ignore hitmass on crit is more comfortable to play and less risky than rampage (at least on MK15), but obviously plenty of damage and stagger is left on the table. What ‘feels’ best might also depend on your build. If you’re crit+martyr, you tend to have plenty of +dmg going on (though can’t afford stagger talent).
Well… they need to revert that…
Rampage was already very strong…
Also, I would not mind that they fix mutant combat axe damages… that need it since… well since the Darktide release.
They corrected it, and immediately reverted the changes…
I don’t care of what they do, but I just want an heavy swing with it doing more damages than a light one.
This to say… that I believe it won’t happen, but they return to their bad decisions. Patch 13 has made lot of blessing interesting also cause they lowered the one that were aiming power and also, but less, damages.
Making this one giving a power bonus, and a so huge bonus, is really a bad step in the wrong direction.
Yeah that’s fair I was referring more to wrath and savage when referring to cleave blessings. I’m not sure that get used much on anything other than chain sword now? Even then it’s probably not considered meta for them.
Yeah I don’t think it was really warranted. I don’t think it’s a huge deal either mind. Just wasn’t really even in my list of blessings genuinely deserving buffs.
Yeah absolutely, the way cleave blessings work (and dont work) make them… niche, if useful at all.
I mean I think they’re good on paper, just with 2 blessing slots they never quite feel worthy of being your top priority. I don’t dislike that they’re there, they don’t feel bad or unimpactful when you’re using them (usually because you’re yet to have a more optimal permutation of your weapon). They’re just kinda destined to be replaced. That’s more than I could say for some blessings…
Also very true. They are at least functional (though won’t do what most expect them to do) which is indeed more than some other blessings.
well, everything that make a blessing mandatory should be avoided. I have all my evis with rampage… cause I tested with wrath and wondered why it was not working like it should.
A so huge bonus is making this blessing mandatory for an evis. This is the main reason to revert changes.
(at least in my vision that is, there should be no mandatory blessings, or they should have made a “pool” of 2 blessings for all weapons or even better, removed them entirely).
That’s a difficult decision to make, as blessings I imagine are hard to balance… I just want to see a more even play field for weapons…
I’d love to use the shovel more as a veteran, but power sword and chain sword are so powerful I just end up hamstringing my team with my lack of horde clear.
Right so to get back to this and maybe tip others too, I took this to test the Devil’s Claw IV / VII with Rampage & Shred. I remember well that at least before Oct 3:rd Devil’s Claw IV had notoriously bad cleave without a blessing for it. I’ve used these since then while playing around with parry builds, but since I’ve always made sure they had a cleave blessing I can’t be sure if there’s been overall buffs to the base cleave too.
Anyway, back to now, I made a stealth zelly build a few days ago and been playing around with it since:
And here’s the main points:
- Rampage is more than enough for absolutely ridiculous cleave
- DCVII bc 1) its 1:st heavy is a cleave, so easy & fast access to it for max # of targets for stealth & Invocation of Death both, 2) as someone here earlier noted it seems to have shorter recovery for parry than IV making it safer, 3) its singe-target combo L>H>L (repeat) is imo overall better than DCIV’s H>parry/H>L (repeat) for the faster hit rate for proccing talents & more different targets hit per second, even if it has slightly lower dmg
- Stealth doesn’t cancel from attacks for about 0.5-1s after use. So if you use the ult just as your 1:st heavy is going off, you’ll stay stealthed and can hit one more time. So: ult>H>parry>H, to get 2 autocrit & finesse & backstab boosted cleaves. With bigger groups this is so frigging huge it will instantly recharge your stealth, esp on backstabs ofc, so you can keep repeating it just for raw dps without really risking not having it available later for survivability or utility.
- Stealth also gives the DCVII the time it needs to do the L>H>L for single target combos. Same trick as above works there too ofc, you can use stealth just before the H goess off, then parry>L(miss)>H to get a second heavy before the stealh wears off.
- Shred requires chained hits, which is tricky with many weapons like knives etc. since even a single missed hit resets the stacks. DC’s cleave however is wide & deep making it extremely unlikely to miss as long as there’s at least something in your general vicinity. This makes maintaining that insane crit rate rather trivially easy.
- Between Shred, Scource and Blazing Piety, you’re usually sitting on an 80% crit chance
All in all, this thing is a monster, whenever there’s enemies around it recharges the stealth from “stupid fast” to “instantly”. It absolutely destroys a huge number of everything that isn’t an oggy, while still having the parry for that variable gameplay and to easily deal with monsters, ragers etc. It feels like a straight upgrade from knives etc with just way more & reliable crit hits, damage and faster CD’s against more than a few targets, which is most of T5+ runs ofc. I’m definitely going to try it on my psyker & vet too! … but only after a few more runs on the zelly. I love Duellist and seriously want that & FoF with this thing. It’s just that I use both on almost all my builds so I wanted to go for something different here first.
Regardless, Rampage being Power as opposed to dmg really doesn’t make sense and it really shows here. I meant to comment on that before, but between the cleave blessings already there and made obsolete by Rampage, and with how its description wasn’t updated either, it almost feels like the change from dmg to Power was an accident and they just mentioned it to cover it up & maybe get some feedback on it. But hey, let’s have some fun while we can!
Uncanny Strike is also a big one and really helps out the knife and dueling swords.
FWIW those “ignore armor” parts are a 75% reduction in mass: 0.25 x Mass and not being stopped by armor (e.g. crusher carapace), so like ~4 crushers typically.
Perfect Strike+Shred+CDR on crits is silly fun on XV Evisc.
Still great though, I guess vague descriptions are par for the course.