Saltz and Krubs greatswords

My problem with both is simply the heavy attacks and i would like to request a change to them.

-For Saltz the great-sword heavy could be a overhead that does a lot of damage but takes some time to charge something that the longer u would the more damage it does.
-Krubs sword could have its heavy be a stab that has nice cleave and some good armor piercing.

I really like the great-swords but they feel so weak and its a shame they are really good when it comes to design.


sounds good for me so Xsword on kruber is still unique
and saltz has a nice counterpart to it, but it shouldnt be that good like Xsword imo but similiar in moveset.

I’m not too sure on this one, as Greatswords are my favourite on higher difficulties and loads of fun on Twins, BUT the moveset isn’t inspiring.

Honestly? Maybe a touch more stamina so you can use the push-overhead a bit more or a slight variation of the swings, but it’ll end up feeling like Bret GS or Exe sword if you’re not careful. It has it’s place in the gameplay space and it just needs the tiniest of tweaks.

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That is something I could get behind. But yea, Greatswords are in a good place. One of the best balanced weapons in the game even though they are a bit boring. Using GS on FK all the night and it is quite effective and fun (at least to me).

I think that’s probably the main reason why I can’t get behind the weapon honestly.
I guess I am too spoiled with varied combos of weapons like longsword or holy greathammer.

I kinda just want some unique heavies instead of them being more powerful versions of normal attacks

To me its not as much of they are weak its really just the move set i want to be enhanced

I agree about the moveset, but it’ll be very hard to find a movespet that doesn’t turn it into Bret Sword or Exe sword, or at least have some huge overlap.

At least keep one of them the same. People have designed actual movesets for this sword in the past, but as long as they keep the Heavy Movement Speed and Cleave, I’ll be happy. That’s what makes it unique.

it’s really fun on extreme density, the Heavy Attack + decent Movement Speed during it is what’s unique, whilst being able to Cleave multiple Chaos Warriors.

Please play this on Tzeentch Vanguard weekly event if it ever pops again.

For Push-Attacks (which are actually pretty good):

  • FK
  • GK with double Stam Regen

I’ve written this mini-guide before somewhere:


  • If you’re against low enemy density, the Weapon is not worth using
  • Use Lights when you’re low HP to generate THP
  • Abuse Movement Speed while doing Heavys, even if you’re going to miss an attack to dodge, it’s fine


  • Double Stam Regen for Push-Attacks (free Smiter makes these more effective)
  • Stamina/Move Speed is fine on Trinket, though he gets 10% MS anyway, so it isn’t necessary

One of my favourite builds in the game.

  • Stagger THP, 40% Stagger Power Talent, everything else DPS and Shotgun for Berserkers. Generally unkillable - Go Crit/Chaos on Weapon and Stamina on Neck
  • Stamina and Ult (which charges super fast) make this really tanky, while dealing a lot of damage
  • Charge also helps you deal with Shield Rats
  • Remember you can drop the 20% HP on Neck on FK and he’ll be fine (it’s how you make Halberd work on Cata)


  • Build him as and average DPS. For Cata+, this is one of the best melee builds in the entire game
  • Crits = dead Chaos Warriors


  • Use Lights a LOT. This isn’t amazingly strong, but still definitely works. CDR build (Stam/CDR on Trinket, and 40% CDR Talent) definitely gives it more space
  • Crit headshot 100 enemies at the same time :innocent:


  • :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face:
  • Oh if you play full THP generation, including Boon of Shallya on Neck, AND have a SoTT in your group, you’ll pretty much be unkillable if you keep moving
  • This is the only Zealot build I run (with any Melee Weapon), and I never have any issues on Cata nd Cata+

God I wish this Weapon was available for Warrior Priest, but it would be so OP.

The problem with both Greatswords is redundancy. There’s no reason for both light and heavy attacks to be identical outside of some damage and cleave values.

Kerilian solved this by making her heavy attack a nifty stab attack. Saltz and Kruber and probably change it up. Like one of them can do vertical swings on L and horizontal on heavies. Another can do stabs on heavies.

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That sounds like the Blunderbuss problem where it’s literally not worth using on anything below Cataclysm. Which let’s be honest, is really really bad game design, especially if even in those difficulties the weapons aren’t the best anyways.

Brings to the question why lower difficulty doesn’t ramp up chaff density at the very least while keeping their stats the same, the entire appeal of this game is to kill endless floods of enemies so the density should be crazy for atleast all difficulties above Recruit.

The problem is less about density on lower difficulties and more about damage.

You have high fire rate Ranged Weapons that can reach one hit bodyshot breakpoints on all of the Elites and Specials (except CW), which means high density can’t happen. It’s the reason a lot of things aren’t worth using below Cata.

That’s why I’ve always argued against balancing things around anything less than Cata. Obviously they should be fair and balanced for it, but when you’re competing with Ranged Weapons, you can just play a full ranged party and get free wins.

It’s why playing Zealot is pointless below Cata, if you’re with decent people. The THP economy is awful.

Bretonian Longsword does the exact thing that’s being asked for and is one of the most power crept options for Kruber too. There’s no need to completely rework Greatsword.

If you was referencing Blunderbus and Greatsword in regards to Cata here, they are some of the best and completely viable. Not sure if you was though.

The blunderbuss is completely pointless below cata

It justifies itself on Cata but anything below it is unnecessary overkill and it’s far far more efficient to bring a repeater or handgun. There’s no urgency or real need for it when hordes are easily wiped out by you and your team.

Whether the game should be balanced towards a DLC only mode though is a question for another thread.

Ones a longsword and the other’s a greatsword. Completely different weapon and fantasy. That’s like saying why bother using soulstealer staff over fireball or Corusation staff when it’s viable but clearly not the most efficient staff.

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Then there’s no reason to focus on Greatsword, and the problem is easily fixed by playing on Cata.

I’m not saying why bother ‘use’. I’m saying why ‘change’ it. Two completely different things.

You’ve already stated that there’s other Weapons that have the same issue, and I agree. The issue is the difficulty isn’t balanced at all, and never has been. You can delete everything with Ranged Weapons, when once you move up to Cata, you’re forced into Melee almost constantly.

This kind of changed when they destroyed balance on Cata with Coruscation and BH shotguns, but w.e.

Kind of off topic but i 'll throw it there ; the elf version would also need some tweaks .Getting ‘‘Heavy Linesman’’ modifier on the heavy 2 would help a tone with armoured enemies crowd control, wich is a real struggle with this weapon on her. Or giving it straight some shield penetration on its 1st charged heavy. My 2 cents.

I reiterate, you can’t and really shouldn’t prioritize balancing around a premium DLC only game mode. Let alone one where only a small fraction of players actually play

The weapons are pointless in the grand majority of instances of this game for most players, that in itself is indicative that the weapons are the problem.

Not that the difficulties themselves don’t have issues I want fixed too such as applying Catas enemy density to all difficulties. But that’s a topic for another thread.

The game is already balanced around that, as half of the Talents, Weapons and Ults don’t really come online until higher difficulties.

Classes like FK, Zealot and IB can barely even function on lower density. This can even be a problem on Cata, if the team is deleting everything.


Is caused by damage more than spawns.

Even if you added more enemies, they can just be deleted from range anyway.

Also it is a discussion for this thread, as it fixes the problem you’re talking about, and is part of the discussion we’ve already been having, so it’s therefore relevant.

You’re suggesting balancing around Legend, which would require less work than just increasing density.

The Weapon is most effective vs high density and Legend doesn’t have high density.

Or you could just play deeds and weekly, when Tzeentch Twins or Vanguard are up.

This applies to a huge amount of Talents and Weapons in Legend though? They would have to do an entire rework of half of the Weapons, Talents and Classes to balance Legend.

At the minute, the game feels mostly balanced around Cata and playable on Legend, unless you get a decent ranged player.

If you balance weapons and careers around legend breakpoints you wont meet breakpoints for cata and the weapons and careers would be garbage and underpowered for cata. And if you have to stack buffs to function and it is balanced on legend enemy density the career would be fine on legend but on high density hordes and enemies on cata you would have your stacked buffs almost anytime in a cata run up which would lead maybe to be op on cata. So either careers would be underpowered or overpowered on cata. Thats why you always should balance careers based on the highest difficulty.

The only questionable point is why the highest difficulty is behind a paywall. But balacing wise you should always take the highest difficulty for balancing.

And I already told you thats extremely bad design to do so around a game mode that a fraction of the customer base can never access without forming out extra $$$$ after buying the base game.

When did I say anything about Legend? I just said that it shouldn’t be balanced around a mode that can’t be played by a lot of people who bought the base game.

It’d a topic for another thread because based on TC’s replies, the issue lies in how uninspired the movesets are where the lights and heavies are stronger and weaker versions of similar side swings.

Probably why his suggestions given lean towards giving it some move diversity rather than more stagger or more damage on certain attacks or extra half shield.

A weapon can be utterly broken but still extremely bland.