Sainted weapons, what do you think they will be?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
1

There’s a mod that permits you to put your weapons in red.
here a screenshot

image
image1252×837 132 KB

(yes I have put back old names)

The interesting point I have seen in this mod is that:

image
image2326×239 21.2 KB

So, what do you expect from “red” weapons, sainted ones? reminder: the mod colors in red, we are not sure it would be the color… but I don’t see why they would change this color.

I just hope that sainted will allow us to go to 100% stats… but it sounds a little too much in my mind…

5 Likes
2

Imagine we could have had a good crafting system 2 years ago if they implemented this to remove random from stats and didn’t implement the locks…

5 Likes
3

I think you may be able to boost one state to 100% at some point.

At least that was what I was hoping.

1 Like
4

So: @Gideon404 and I were looking at the stat distributions on weapons. Believe it or not, they’re actually very highly skewed towards getting the “perfect” 80|80|80|80|60 ratios. They’re already easily set out so you can min/max that way.

A lot harder to get 5 x 76% if that’s what you were wanting.

I don’t see the point of going to “500 points”, other than the maths becomes easier. But maybe Sainted could have sliders so you can get a 5*76 if that’s what you want?

(ps @Ralendil I notice you use “critic” a lot in posts, but it’s probably better to say “criticals”. Criticals is a shortening of “critical hits” , whereas a critic is someone who complains about things :wink: )

4 Likes
5

Yes.
You usually get 1-2 stats that are not maxed.
Sometimes 3, but that is quite rare.
I do not think that i have seen any with more than 3 stats not getting maxed.

6

id hope for unique bless’s that alter playstyle or especially benifit one playstyle

flat +damage is a bit boring for me.

3 Likes
7

This would be an interesting route for them to go down. I’ve seen it in other games and it definitely makes each of those weapons stand out from the crowd.

8

Likewise I have noticed I think the algorithm for creating Melk weapons seems to be different from the armoury exchange/Brunt/Emperor’s Gift

I think because the gift and shops roll based on the current power distribution and the 5 bars can be very widely distributed,
Then the maximum potential is what happens when Empower is added on top, and the Empower function seems to spread +5/6 per +10 power roughly evenly across the 5 bars until a bar is filled to 30.
So a single low roll for a modifier bar often creates the 60% dump stat when fully Empowered to 500.

Whilst it looks like Melk rolls more within the 80%-60% so has fewer extremes. The 80/80/80/80/60 looks more pleasing to us, but the more even distribution is arguably just as useful unless is a very specific breakpoint.

1 Like
9

We did some maths: and by all means, this is what I remember from A level which was a pretty long time ago …

So, rolls are only between 0-20 because our range is between 60 and 80, so effectively it’s 60 + rand(0-20). There are 21 possibilities in the range 0-20.

Let’s consider the “Dump Stat” roll -

So any 80x4 + 60x1 roll:

Chances of an 80 = 1/21
Chances of a 60 is 1/21

… but the last roll is immaterial because it’s forced in a 380 weapon. There’s no degree of freedom. So you’ve only really got to get 4 rolls of min/max values.

So that’s 1/21 ^ 4. But then you can arrange those numbers in 5 different ways, with each one of the 5 stats as the dump stat. So the probs are really (1/21 ^ 4) * 5. Put that in Excel or your calculator and that is … VERY UNLIKELY ™ = 0.000257

And yet they crop up a lot. I’ve loads of ‘dump stat’ weapons, even if it’s in Damage :roll_eyes:

Compare that to the chance of getting the “Equal Spread” distribution - 5 x 76%

1/21 ^ 4 for our rolls again, but this time, there’s only 1 way of getting this. So it’s 5.142 * 10 ^6 = 0.00000514 = Impossible, by all practical means.

Please - someone correct me if I’m wrong as I don’t claim to remember this all perfectly. In particular I can’t remember if it’s really *5 or *4 possibilities. Maybe it’s 4. Either way; it’s pretty damn unlikely to get a perfect weapon, and yet we do.

10

That is not quite right.

Due to the 380 sum:

  • a 60 can only be rolled if it is the first roll, or all previous rolls are 80
  • a 60 at any point forces all remaining rolls to be 80

So these are all possibilities of getting a 4x80 + 60:

  • 1st roll determines the outcome: 60 → 80 80 80 80
  • 2 rolls determine the outcome: 80 60 → 80 80 80
  • 3 rolls determine the outcome: 80 80 60 → 80 80
  • 4 rolls determine the outcome: 80 80 80 60 → 80
  • 4 rolls determine the outcome: 80 80 80 80 → 60

So if it was pure rng, the probability to get 4x80 and 1x60 would be
(1st is 60) + (2nd is 60) + (3rd is 60) + (4th is 60) + (5th is 60) = overall probability
1/21 + 1/21^2 + 1/21^3 + 1/21^4 + 1/21^4 = 0.05 = 5%

Regarding the rng aspect of the stat distribution, there are a lot of combinations that can not exist due to the 380 sum.
But considering the options that would be possible, it is quite clear, that the stats that we get, are not randomized with the only rule being “each between 60 and 80, with a total sum of 380”.

I guess they made the 1 dumpstat roll the most common one, since that is very likely the most popular stat distribution on most weapons.

3 Likes
11

Is “Sainted” something the mod author found in the game files, or did they completely make that up themselves ?

12

he found that in game files… so, and nothing has confirmed that, I expect that we will see sooner or later “sainted” weapons.

In my opinion, the 80% cap make no sense. Except if these sainted weapons come and raise the cap to 100%

1 Like
13

Probably something thought up during pre-alpha that will never see the light of day.

1 Like
14

You might have wanted to read the OP.

15

It’s been there since the beta, so don’t get any hopes up. :joy:

1 Like
16

Bingo. The item generation is random. It is the way empowerment increments the stats, and the way this changes as they cap out, that leads to a very high frequency of 80/80/80/80/60 weapons.

Tldr: the best source of perfect weapons is whichever shop sells the lowest item level because there is more room for empowerment.

I collected 16 hours of Armoury data and 12% of the weapons were god rolls. Credit to the really convenient Dumpstatfinder mod for automatically filtering the vendors and saving me time.

(ignore the second tab)

2 Likes
17

i still have hope…
Fatshark took two years to make a good crafting system…
They are slow… but it is still here…

2 Likes
18

Thank you!
I realise I incriminated Gideon in that woolly maths - it wasn’t him, that was me getting it wrong! :slight_smile:

Less unlikely than I thought, to be fair.

1 Like
19

He also uses the wrong decimal separator!
En Anglais, we says “crits” for short.

20

I imagine it’ll be the same as in vermintide 2. Basically weapons that have max stats from the start. Boring, uninspired and lazy. Didnt care about them back in vermintide, doubt i’ll care about them in darktide but at least it’ll give the farmers something to do.
However, darktide did eventually move on from the lame vermintide 2 skills and created a proper skill tree so we might yet be surprised.
But i’ve no expectations or hopes.

What i would HOPE the red weapons to be is some final 3rd unique blessing/perk thats a partial curse for example :
Cant move or dodge when aiming / but immune to ranged attacks
or
Weapon deals 10x as much bleed / but its hit damage is reduced to 1

Fun stuff that would change the gameplay and have a huge effect. Obviously it’d be nice if you could turn the 3rd blessing/curse on/off