[Rework] Footknight, like an AVALANCHE! Is this really so?

Never said a thing about an aura. You strategically misunderstand quite well.

Multiple times you say FK can only floor 1 elite. 6 posts later he can floor as many as he touches, but it doesn’t matter because of a bug? Pick an inaccuracy

Don’t wanna get into comparisons and balance discussions as it’s a hard discussion to have, so i’ll try to look at fk individually.

How far would you suggest the aura range to be? If we choose the keep spawn point as the fk spot, how far should it reach?

I do wanna touch a bit on when you say ib has 20 seconds to block 1 hit and fk can block any damage for 3 seconds. Blocking any damage for 3 seconds is strong, fk’s ult is around the same when attacking as the ib armour cd, if we make it a default option in the ult it would be a bit strong i think personally. It’s true that ib does have more dmg reduction on him personally but fk has alot aswell and has attack speed talents to do more damage if we exclude flamethrower. Hard to compare the 2, but if we compare in invincibilty part i would choose 3 seconds invinc + stagger + attack speed every 20 ish seconds over 1 invinc hit or any type of dmg. Having a bit of risk ulting in a horde but getting attack speed or power is worth it, you can use both those talents with no risk using ult and block cancelling most of the time.

Ib cannot stagger cw’s the same way fk can.

Are you sure staggering force doesn’t work with them? I’ve seen some shield builds that can stagger some enemies out of certain attacks, or used for temp hp on low stagger weapons but not entirly sure about that.

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How far would make the aura be able to reach? If we take the keep spawn spot as fk’s spot.

Rv’s passive is not an aura, don’t think a dmg reduction aura should work that way, that would be constant dmg reduction without paying attention to anything.

They could make talents increase aura effect, like i’m sure the 5% increase does, but shouldn’t increase range. Or do you mean the passive should be tweaked down in number but have a higher range, and you have the option to increase the number with a talent?

Mostly depends on the aura (paced strikes could be an issue), but I think 5% DR, even worldwide is not that huge of an impact, but could be from a talent that increase range.
The basis could be, from the keep sigmar statue, I would dare to say until the ladder on the right.

No but it’s a passive that act worldwide. And could be a “regen ammo” aura kinda. I guess it’s rather comparable.

Well they could make increase aura effect, or more aura related talent in every career, or some career that gives all krubs career auras to a single career with a specific talent in a row with multiples choices (so you give up something to get it).

The passive/active part is another thing. Like “When I activate my ult, my aura which usually reduces 5% damage, now reduces 10% for the duration of the ult”.
Numbers will have to be tweaked accordingly of course.

At the moment, auras are a design space that could be used more.
Would even like some properties to increase range rather than the monotonous +% power vs something.

On another note, kruber footknight do lack a bit in theme (be careful, theme is different than strength), so the “unstoppable” force he should be kinda can be stopped during its ult, and it annoys me a bit.
Would like to see him really invincible during the charge (after the starting frame like everyone else). And a talent to reproduce the trailer kruber which really “project” ennemies really far instead.

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In my opinion, this would be blatantly bad design. Active skills should not be panic buttons by default but strategic elements (there are exceptions like the problematic stealth skills which better were not in the game but we can’t change it this late in the game cycle). Active skills should not be the idiot-proof panic button where the player is just chosing his colour of doom while the enemies are watching helplessy. Players should have to make a choice between the safe card if they want to use their active skill more as a panic button or a damage card which amplifies your damage output IF used correctly. For example:

Foot Knight: Do I want the invincibility to cover bad positioning and getting out of jail card or do I want the increased attack speed to cause more damage
Unchained: Do I want the THP for survival or do I want the increased power to burn my enemies
Mercenary: Do I want the ability to revive my fallen team mates (reactive skill usage, panic button) or do I want reduced damage to prevent them from falling (active skill usage but slightly more difficult)
Handmaiden: Do I want the survivability or do I want the increased damage output

Don’t take these decisions from the players. Every invincible (or similar) effects we add to the game, is a step in the wrong direction. Actually, people requesting that the invisible/invincible effects are added as default SHOW that Fatshark has hit a good spot. Because people want to chose more damage but are not willing to skip their safe card. That is good design, as it should be.

Similar for auras. Auras are not your general game helper. They are your reminder that you should huddle together if things are getting tough. Keeping an eye on your and your team positions even if it gets hectic is what this game should demand from you. Again, that is good design. The larger the aura gets, the more this skill becomes unneeded. Honestly, global effects like the Waystalkers healing effect are idiotic and should be changed. However, I do like the idea for charm properties or traits (or talents if there were space) to affect both aura range and effect. So instead of Shallya’s boon, you chose the aura trait which doubles aura range and effect. Or instead of +20 % more health you can either increase effect or range of the aura. Gives again a meaningful choice between an egoistic choice or the team orientated choice. Which is again, good design.

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For the first point we mostly disagree as I don’t see a frame of invincibility rewarding bad play and all, and I think your mind won’t change about it, so It’s okay to disagree on some stuff.

For the second point thought :

As long as you see auras as reminders (or a general helper of play), that means they’re not useful enough. Auras are kinda more Kruber signatures (there are others ones but it’s mostly Kruber). As it is Kruber signature, I don’t see that as general help hints. I see that as a kind of power that have a lot of unused design space around it.

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Strategically… ye, I admit it, I have a plan to sabotage the forum :expressionless:

You haven’t understood my speech. I said that Valian Charge, often, can stagger only the first elite FK meets (since one armored enemy stops the charge and since the very small stagger AoF).

So I would like to see a larger AoF at the impact OR the ability to go through armored enemies.

The bug is another speech. In theory Valiant Charge can knock down a Chaos Warrior. But, because of that bug, many times you can barely make them tremble. I think another player can overwrite Valiant Charge’s stagger with another weaker.

Me too. In fact people focus themself on this point… but, as written in the first topic, it’s an advanced speech. Imho the priority is another.

Honestly I think that IB’s invincibility (wich is a passive, so you haven’t yo give up none advantage) is stronger since it can protect you from sudden attacks, wich are the most dangerous ones.

FK’s inv can protect you from certain situations, like a gas rat or a stormer, but it’s much more situational… because it’s not always active.

Moreover, when you use Valiant Charge, you stagger the enemies… so they can’t attack you. I mean, those 3 seconds are precious to make the ult safer (as it should be)… but they aren’t 3 seconds during which you absorb a huge amount of damage.

Moreover you have to remember that IB has +80% damage reduction (in addition to the base +30%) for 15 seconds.

The problem of FK’s attack speed is that it’s useful mainly when you play an aggressive version of FK… wich is IMHO a weaker Merc.
With a shield, for example, it can be deleterious… because, using the combo bash + push with too much attack speed, you lose too much stamina (while the stagger is more or less the same).

Anyway you are right… start the speech “FK vs IB” is not a useful thing.

We explained each other our point of view… I think it’s nice :slight_smile:

Good question… but honestly I can’t answer. I would not know how. I only feel that it can’t be like WS’ regen, wich has an infinite radius, but it should be larger than now… since the game, mainly during bad situations, forces you to take some distance from your one only enemy.

I’m totally sure: I tested it more times.

The only advantage Stagger Force brings is the ability to stagger Monks out of their combo. Wich is useful, no doubts, but you can’t use an entire talent only for one enemy.

Using the shield, IB and FK can stagger CWs in the same way… rather IB can do it more safely since even if he makes an error ther is Gromril’s protection and since the higher stamina regen.

FK has the ult, sure, but for this reason I would like to see its bug fixed (the bug that doesn’t let you to knock down CWs) and I would like to see the possibility to stagger more CWs at time (for example with a bigger stagger AoF at the impact).

Even because we must not forget that IB can make harmless for 15 seconds an infinite quantity of CWs.

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Thanks for answering. That range is pretty far, it does help for players that are cut off from their team or when a team is all over the place, it’s a matter of finding a sweet spot but i think it’s fine currently, but maybe fs will look into it a bit more after reading this.

Talents making passives work differently is already in the game. Example: whc tag dmg increase talent. It increases the passive tag dmg. You are right about aura’s having alot of things that could be done with them, like adding a trait which increases an aura by a bit or talents which can add something but lose something, there could be some good ideas in that if it gets implemented and thought out well enough and ofcourse well balanced.

I don’t really have an issue with giving him invincibilty, it’s just if we add it right now with the current ult talents, i think it would be a bit too good, but thats a personal balance opinion. Adding it with reworked ult talents i wouldnt have a problem with, depending on those reworked talents.

I’m not sure I see the game as the dev team does. But the diablo side which they tried to implement is currently, in my opinion, the weak point of the game overall. So as I see fit to rework the properties, I also want to see more varied builds (like very strong on their core focus point and kinda weak on the others). So to me, an “infinite range aura bringer” does not seem cheated. Nether an infinite arrow elf, or a master duplicate bomber.
It’s all a matter of keeping current difficulty and adding varied builds.

General thoughts on OP’s post and the thread in general. The aura is definitely too small. Doesn’t need to be massive but does need to be bigger than it is currently.

@souI23 I don’t think you have a great grasp on stagger breakpoints. No, staggering force on its own doesn’t hit many useful stagger breakpoints for most weapons. However, comboing it with things like opportunist, Taal’s champion, power vs properties etc. let’s FK hit a bunch of stagger breakpoints nobody else can eg staggering a Chaos warrior out of any attack with SnS heavy/push (admittedly heavy investment to reach this), or reliably staggering any type of berserker with 2H Hammer light or heavy attacks (my personal favourite stagger breakpoints for him). There’s heaps more but hopefully you get the point.

You can’t just look at all these talents in isolation when it’s the possibilities when combined that defines the class’ strength. You don’t take Taal’s Champion to be a weaker Merc, you pick it reach stagger breakpoints Merc can’t while still being tankier and putting out passable damage.

All that said as well as auras there’s a few things I’d like to see tweaked with him. Attack speed on push should last about a second longer IMO to be much use with a number of his weapons. I would like to see counter punch get its previous duration back but I’m not too fussed on that. It’s Hero Time I’d love to see changed to something like 20%-30% MS when you’re the last man standing (activating upon last team mate going down, not when they actually die). This would at least be a strong clutch talent, albeit still situational.

To be clear, I think he’s good overall and in a better spot than probably ever before. But that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t benefit from a few tweaks here and there.

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I agree.

As written in the thread, I was talking about Shields. I would like to see a better synergy between Staggering Force and them (even because shields are mostly meant to be used by FK and IB). I don’t like and I don’t want to talk again about FK vs IB… but, since the dwarf has much more toughness, I would like to see FK capable to staggers, just a little be better, CWs with Shield’s push/bash.

Honestly here I simply don’t agree… there isn’t too much to say.

I agree.

I agree.

Honestly I don’t like that talent… but if it must exist, I would prefer a flat +10% movement speed. Just to fit a little be better with the mobile tank FK’s style.

Ye, I agree… I mean, the point “weaker Merc” (true or false) is totally secondary. The aggressive talents, for me, can also remain. Imho the priority should be some aspects to refine (like the ult that can be very bugged).

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I did some deeper tests about Valiant Charge stagger’s bug. You can find them here.

Sadly I don’t know how report a video, but the test is pretty easy to repeat.

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Valiatn charge should be like a bestigors charge, Steer it round corners and everything goes flying into the air or knocked out of the way. EVERYTHING.

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I love this comment.

That bug hits the Foot Knight hard, especially if you rely on push attacks. e.g., I hit a CW with Valiant Charge, he is on his knees, I then push attack with my Greatsword (because that’s the attack with the most armored damage) but pushing him makes him stand up again immediately. This messes with my stagger damage bonus especially since I use the Mainstay talent.

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Exactly!

It’s hero time should just instantly give you your ult cooldown when a party member goes down, can only trigger once per minute or something like that.

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Best freaking idea I’ve heard about that talent, the more I think about it the more I like it. Yes.

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I would love it.

This change would be a good start. However (if I’m understanding correctly) it would only be useful if you’re ult was off cooldown. Perhaps instead it could act like a conc pot for 5 seconds, or long enough to give three charges? This would be powerful, but if its limited to once every minute (or whatever time is most balanced) then it balances out.

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