Revert “Enemies within, enemies without” and “Blood redemption” to their old values

“Enemies within, enemies without” used to be 5% per second when near 3 enemies, it is now 2.5%, “Blood redemption” used to give 100% more toughness on kill, it is now 50%

I feel like cutting them in half was unnecessary and just rendered them useless.

The veteran has a similar one that gives 5% toughness per second when no enemies within 8 meter which wasn’t changed, they also have one that gives 25% now and 25% over 5 seconds on elite kills and one that gives toughness + toughness reduction on weak spot kill.

Psyker has multiple talent that gives toughness back.

Ogryn gets huge amount of toughness back on heavy attacks.

So why did zealot get their toughness regeneration talent cut in half?


While I don’t know the reasoning behind numbers not changing on other classes, with the overall increase in the number of toughness-related talents (toughness on X, increased replenishment, toughness damage reduction) and the fact that there’s little restriction on how many you can pick up, I think a reduction in individual effects makes sense.

Enemies Within, Enemies Without is a bit of a weird one though, for me. Previously, it made sense on things like the Hammer or Crusher where crits and quickly killing multiple enemies were not practical. Now, in the hammer’s case, quickly killing multiple enemies is less of an issue, and it’s no longer A or B, you can take both. I can’t say I’ve ever noticed the 2.5% - when you’ve got to be in near melee range, and most enemies will wipe out most/all of your toughness in one hit*, it’s not gonna do much to sustain you there :person_shrugging:

*I’m not sure if enemy toughness damage values are correct at the moment. I remember a bug report was opened related to many normal enemies being able to one-shot toughness, but I’m not sure what the outcome was.

well =Enemies within, enemies without= was reduced by half 5% to 2.5%,
but also it works diffrent than Vets ability =Catch a breath= which did stay 5%.

but the reason is simple,
the Vets ability is no enemy in 8m, which can be hard to come by especially in a fight.
the zealots ability is when 3 enemies are in 5m, which if we are honest is all the time!

as for =Blood redemption= was not reduced as that ability by that name didnt exist
and the ability that was most like it =Purify In Blood= is 75% more vs 100%.
so its not halved.

also both =Enemies within, enemies without= & =Purify In Blood= where lv1 talents.
which means in the old skill tree you could not take both, only one of them.

also it seems like you dont see how many Toughness regen Skills Zealot has now:
=Enemies within, enemies without= .
=Blood redemption= .
=Vicious Offering= .
=Fortitude in Fellowship= .
=Second Wind= .
=The Voice of Terra= .
=Blood redemption=

and thats not counting the Zealots =Combat Abilities= or =Key Stones=
ya Zealot is fine when it comes to Toughness regen i think we can do with the changes

Feels fair inho, zealot has so many sources of toughness rigen, and it’s really easy to stack multiple rigen talents+ toughness dmg reduction.

I wish for Bleed for the emperor return to it’s original value. Most builds don’t use it and the martyrdom build that does use it, it a pretty big deal for the build.

This topic was automatically closed 7 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.