Replace blood tornadoes

You know it, it’s the worst curse in the game and it’s broken. It’s annoying and on some maps it’s impossible to avoid, so you’ve wasted 1 hour of time just because you were in a hallway. Also it doesn’t has sense in lore. In the game is indicated that Khorne hates sorcerers, there is no point in him doing a damn blood tornado spell.

I propose to change it to the following;
“Khorne´s Champion”. When a player is damaged by an enemy, this enemy is upgraded to the highest-level elite of its faction.

If it sounds good to you, give it love for that developers see it.

4 Likes

The problem I have with blood tornados is that they are unfair.
Skulls damage enemies, blightstormer storms, flamerats, ratlings and globadiers damage enemies.
Nurgle hexed enemies deal damage to enemies.
Khornados don’t ; why not ?

You can counteract all other modifiers, or at least be responsible for any mistakes. You can kill specials before they are a nuisance, banners, or hexed enemies.
You can argue “don’t walk into the khornados”, which is an entirely fair point, and which is not that hard to do to be honest. I rarely take damage from them, but it’s the omnipresence of them that is annoying. So many narrow passages are a pain to traverse simply because by the time one tornado despawns, another one comes up and moves towards you, staying there for 10-15 seconds, and the run grinds to a halt until the game allows you to finally pass.
And there is the last point : you can run through other AoE effects like globadier gas as a last resort (blight storms excluded,- but they take a while to cast and you can prevent them from even appearing), but this tornado hurts like a motherf*cker from the DoT if you dare touch it with your little toe for a frame, and its AoE is actually a bit bigger than the circle on the floor.

I don’t hate them per se, but I find the balance of cooldown/longevity/damage to players/no damage to enemies makes them not fun to play around.

9 Likes

If blood tornados hurt enemies I would like them a little better. I don’t know what the intended balance point is. If I were to categorize:

Curses that are too easy:

  1. Champions - hardly even notice this one usually.
  2. No pickups - this is actually more of a blessing than a curse
  3. Stalking ghost dude - one extra obvious special every few minutes is basically nothing

Curses that are too hard:

  1. Poisoned enemies - Instant damage on trigger if in range, very hard to avoid in a hoard situation. Citadel of eternity finale is a nightmare.

Curses that are just right:

  1. Exploding skulls
  2. Shared damage
  3. Lightning bolts
  4. Miasma with stick - although carrying the stick is super annoying if you have a build going.

For blood tornados, I dunno. They’re pretty close to a good spot I think. I could see one or two of:

  1. Slightly more warning before they form
  2. Slightly slower move speed
  3. Slightly shorter lifetime.
  4. Damaging enemies too.

Edit: I really don’t know anything about the lore, so that’s probably a fair point.

4 Likes

I disapprove. You can hit them and dodge back without taking damage at all.
Now I agree that when clumped on Citadel finale, it can be overwhelming, but I’ve always managed.

I think the warning is ok (could be brighter and louder though, I agree), and though they move fast, they don’t move far, and stop relatively quickly.
I do agree on the lifetime/cooldown balance point. The lifetime is ok if they don’t spawn as often ; or if they spawn that often they should last less long.
The damaging enemies bit would be a plus to allow players to play around them interactively instead of suffering them, though of course if they dealt the damage they deal to players to enemies they would be OP.

1 Like

I honestly think something way better could have been implemented. I know there are people that’ll say “Oh just rework the spawn times and have the damage enemies a little more” but I feel like that’s just settling for dirty diamonds. Blood Tornadoes feel cheap and really don’t fit with a god that leads war and battle. The name alone sounds cool but then in practice it’s like “it’s a blight stormer tornado that just does flat damage”. You’d think there’s more to a god that can imbue rage and power into a living being.

4 Likes

Is brutal if you get it with a horde modifier going, you´ll be drowning in elites&specials and monsters before you know what´s going on and it´s noticeable as hell in arena finale´s.

F** this one really.

Fighting monsters/Specials with it ongoing is pure nightmare fuel. It rams any difficulty from 4-5 to 11 in a single leap if the modifiers are even slightly bad. And to top things of it makes exploration for coin a way more dangerous and time consuming process.

Bolts is nasty if your killing speed is even slightly slow but miasma punishes any failure to instantly kill a gasrat/stormer/patrol or even a monster.

2 Likes

I honestly hate stick with a vengeance. It has the same problem as torches in darkness, you can’t make a bot carry it and it’s lame for whoever is babysitting it at any given point. I’ll take literally any other curse over the stick.

If you could carry it in the offhand but still use your mainhand with shield and dual weapons it wouldn’t be bad. For two handers either make your two hander a bit less efficient or switch to a sidearm for your mainhand (2h hammer → 1h hammer, 2h axe → 1h axe, great/exec → 1h sword).

The mechanic is okay otherwise but the stick sucks.

2 Likes

The holy torch or whatever it is called is actually a good weapon though.
And worst case, you can run around outside the purified area : the miasma only applies curse and your max HP goes down, it doesn’t actually deal damage.

4 Likes

Blood tornados and CW as a whole, really shows how integral to the game barkskin and + 20 health has become. Blood tornados would instantly be much, much less of a pain if barkskin was available, since you’d actually be able to chill in it somewhat, much like blightstormers.

1 Like

I find Tzeentch lightning the most OP, simply because the players don’t have much agency regarding when it’s gonna land and spawn a dozen stormvermin and plague monks on top of the massive horde and other specials present, or even spawn a monster on top of you. It’s very frustrating cause most of the time there isn’t much you could’ve done to prevent it from happening, since in most situations you can’t really run far enough back away from enemies for it to not screw you over, especially during patrols or hordes.

I don’t find blood tornadoes OP, but they are annoying with how often they spawn and how long they last. CW has a lot of narrow pathways and chokepoints where the tornado spawns and you just have to sit there for ages waiting for it to end. I think either the frequency or the duration really has to be shortened by at least half, the damage is OK to me since it’s not that hard to avoid stepping in it. Maybe also a small DOT on enemies would be nice, to make it feel less frustrating as well

3 Likes

Tornadoes are not op but they are very annoying and not funny, and they generate very frequently. Tzeentch lightning is very OP but funny, I still remember those two CW mutating into two chaos spawns on the top of Tower map. RIP xD.

1 Like

I don’t hate it because it’s unmanageable, it’s not; I hate it because it forces someone on the team to use it instead of their usual weapons (ofc the platforms in the final map are easy as you can drop it in the middle and then forget about it until you need to move upwards). Even in the end area, you can dump it near the far end by the respawn points and have a decent area to fight in without actively holding it.

On the maps before the finale: It’s easy with a team using voice chat and communicating/coordinating well, with PuGs usually one person ends up feeling forced to babysit the torch while the others enjoy the game relatively normally. Apart from having to act like lemmings with the torch wielder.

As far as the rest go, from playing more:

  • Khornados: should really damage enemies as well as players, they’d feel a lot more fair then, or at least there’d be some counterplay to this curse. I don’t really mind this one that much personally.
  • Poisoned enemies: could use a slight added delay before the poison cloud fully forms/starts dealing damage. It’s mostly an issue on the citadel maps, on open maps you can easily play around it.
  • Lightning bolts: I kinda wish these had a slight chance to degrade enemies into weaker ones too. Bolts are easily avoided with an organised team, but with PuGs they can be a nightmare, we had a lot of runs where chaos spawns were added in alongside the boss or whatever else was going on. If enemies sometimes got downgraded not upgraded I feel it’d make it more interesting, without really trivialising the danger - you could still get a bestigor or warrior that transforms into a spawn, and regular enemies getting upgraded into elites.

The malevolent spirit one could use a buff. I’m not sure what kind, my first thought was to make him silent sometimes, but in a +Specials map that might just start seeming unfair to players as he’s a lot more dangerous on those maps (normal maps you can just almost forget about him lol).

Perhaps he should occasionally spawn with copies of himself that approach the players but can’t actually do anything to them, so you don’t know which one is the real malevolent spirit? The others would have the same hp and make the same sounds etc, but do nothing more than approach the team from different angles. They could despawn as soon as the real malevolent spirit is destroyed to be extra thematic.

3 Likes
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