Remove Gunner Resistance from curios, reduce Gunner/Shooter damage, limit sliding

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
41

but we grew past that relatively quick.

those making damnation their comfort zone voluntarely or out of lack if options to go higher in terms of skill aint a reference in my book when it comes to “tactical”

we “could” chose to do so on a lazy afternoon, they cant help BUT play that way cause they lack the tools.

so “acting” on gunners is different than them actually being a thread that demands adeptation.

i’d love to have various enemy patterns or even vertical drop-ins.
guess paratroopers are a bit far fetched but i’m sure there’s a 40k equivalent somehow.

thing is, in that density, a.i on top (and i’m no expert here) cpu’s are gonna fry. :man_shrugging:

so far its been the one or two laggards that didnt commit to the rush forward that made such things taking more time than they should.

cheap as it is, you use your momentum and until you hit your captain/twin combo its usually the same approach to every obstacle that works.

yeah, maybe the odd havoc 40 where you pace differently anyways, hence out of caution give them gunners more time to cluster up than they would have had normally.

example: relay station after the ventilator event, the drop off into the yard.

cover by “box” to your left, usually first wave coming up then gunners/reapers in the far end.

best way to do it? kill the melee wave, clench your buttcheeks and hoof it down into cover sliding.

you “could” go naked cannon roof shootout and yell some fancy commands to your mates.

by then the first approach is usually past the airlock already.

which team goes and picks option 2 given the choice?

42

Must say that I often pick regular damnation cause it is less the spawn fiesta.

I really would want a mode with somewhat a balanced gameplay and with elites that matters and no specials spawn fiesta. And with a biggest part for hordes and lesser enemies.

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43

and thats the normal way to chose amongst options.
nothing wrong with that.

only counter argument i made was taking those stuck at damnation as “reference” for tactical approach.

simply not “knowing better” and thus playing slower doesnt make it more “elaborate” by default when you could kill em in passing instead of slugging it out for a solid minute or more.

as for damnation “by choice”, havent played it in ages but if we talk about “normal damnation”, no auric or histg, aint there far less gunners to begin with, thus not even showing up on a stage that’d be set for a “tactical play” ?

whatever difficulty one choses that day is up to personal preference.

usually i do an auric maelstrom first to get the juices flowing and the energy drink to kick in before i throw myself against havoc.

then again its a good % a fight against myself, not giving in to the current “condition”

though unrealistic, i expect myself at my peak no matter what… okay maybe not when 16 hours of constant :face_vomiting: but anything else “s but a scratch” :sweat_smile:

44

What is ‘suppression’ to you and how should it function in Darktide?

45

lol, aaaanyway:

46

I will maybe hurt you, but getting 15 gunners is a normal situation in regular damnation.
The difference is around specials more than elites.

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47

I think this simplifies the problem too much. I had 500 hours shortly after launch and came from VT2 where I was already putting many hours in and like to think I learned most there is about the game. My learning curve at that point was done and over. I still preferred the old overall balance in DT because of how it was harder for a team to just blast through. It’s not black and white like that like everyone just got good and that’s the only thing that changed.
I wouldn’t attribute it SOLELY to shooters, but my sole argument is that players have so many defensiveoptions now that we’re all playing like those perma-75% DR veterans who can just W+M1 now. Shooters being really overtuned is Fatsharks attempt at countering that, and while I think it’s not inherently an issue, it’s a symptom of the actual issue. The game would be more fun if we went back to player characters not being gods so the enemies can be a bit more grounded.

In the same vein: back when 4 crushers were a serious threat it wasn’t only because people were bad. It was because:

  • We had no kraks
  • We didn’t have uncanny on a weapon that was easy to use meta (the knife was despised by 99% of players) for dots to kill them easy
  • we had no smite
  • we had no chorus
  • we had no dueling sword oneshots on them
  • we had no shout or taunt spam keeping them staggered
  • we had no passive rending talents so only very few guns could actually hurt a crusher, period
  • CC was very hard to come by, ogryn was the only class that could “undig” himself or someone else (and I’d say he was the strongest at the time due to it)
  • more reasons along that vein but I’m bored of listing now
  • And only now after all these reasons, average player skill ALSO factors in

Back then when you wanted to deal with those 4 crushers you had to either have a bolter on you with the appropriate blessings or you had to have a melee weapon that did it. It was not uncommon for people to run stuff like twin stubber + bull butcher on Ogryn or force sword + surge staff on psyker both of which had like no armor damage because they offered other benefits. Nowadays you’d have a hard time coming up with a build that doesn’t somehow oneshot crushers easily.

The end result is that you can’t just “play like you used to” because 1. you’d have to limit your weapon and build choice extremely heavily which isn’t fun and 2. you’d have to somehow ensure your teammates don’t trivialize the 5 crushers for you. “play with friends” is assuming I have 3 friends who are interested in selfnerfing which inherently isn’t fun. It’s more fun to use every tool at your disposal and still struggle.
Same concept is true for gunners (albeit for slightly different reasons, like abundance of toughness DR and ammo buffs etc), and it’s why gunners and shooters have been tuned up in both spawns and range. They don’t want to take player power away even if it’s warranted. I personally don’t think they’re too OP yet but I do like the old balance better, it was simply more varied.

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48

lol, aaaanyway:

“Circle back to balance”, lol. This thread is about balance, you can wage your fast paced/slow & tactical war with those that do make that argument.

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49

What do you mean “to me”? It is an ingame mechanic that works as the devs set it up. It’s not something that can be subjectively percieved.

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50

So these squiggles and lines are called letters. Arranged in certain ways, they forma language. You means you. Suppression is an ingame mechanic that stumbles enemies and forces them to cover depending on their cc threashold/lockout, like all other forms of cc.

Are my words making sense so far?

It is absolutely, categorically, a subjective perceiving of an ingame mechanic when you say it should work like x y z. So, I am asking, you, how should it work in your subjective but not personal view?

Right now, it works as I said, and perks that increase suppression are more likely to break the targets cc threshold depending on the various criteria (like distance, amount, base resistance) thus forcing them into the suppression effect.

This is why weapons that suppress in radius work and dont work soemtimes. Im not sure you know this so I’m explaining why ‘when I shoot it works soemtimes and doesnt’ which is what you objectively said.

I

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51

huh? how so? if anything i thank you for the answer :+1:

52

I mean, you’ve just answered it yourself. It is unreliable and only works well on the weapons that force supression. It is absolutely something you will not be playing around with 95% of the ranged weapons.

53

Yes… so… lets go bac kto the first comment I replied with to see if we can get somethnig going.

What is suppression and how should it function in Darktide, in your opinion?

If that isnt clear I will ask it again. I’m interested.

54

My point (that the pre-13 experience is still there, and many people are currently experiencing it, if you’ll just meet the game part of the way there) isn’t a statement on how I think the game should be balanced. I think we do need many things balanced.

Playing with all the toys is fun. Playing with only some of the toys is fun for some people too. Playing with like-minded people isn’t an impossibility.

The pre-krak, pre-VoC, pre-crazy-DS game is a modicum of effort away if that’s what you want.

I get that not everyone likes how the difficulty in A5/AMs is done (mostly with spam). And I get that not everyone likes how the difficulty in Havoc is done (with many numerical changes and, more recently, enemy timing/composition changes).

And while I do agree that an increase in player power has made those extra difficulty levels kinda necessary for a portion of the player base, I think they always were going to be necessary. I think they’d be necessary even with massive nerfs across the board, including to core mechanics like sliding.

But I think the strategy FS has taken is to add options, not take them away. The older style of play (be that Damnation or AMs) is there and we can access it if we want to exert a little effort.

55

Since launch, players have gained the following:

Buffs to plasma gun allowing easy oneshots
New blessings trivializing armor
Shout that provides aoe knock back and effectively temporary invincibility
Shields that block ranged fire against a whole team
Ogryn shield aggroing ranged enemies
Relic that also does stagger and invincibility
Regenerating armor nukes
Non regenerating regular nukes
Shovels that one shot (subsequently nerfed for Ogryn to not mass oneshot)
Stealth
Easily spammable cool down reduction
INCREDIBLY spammable instant stagger
Almost as spammable regenerating ranged homing knives
Massive health and toughness buffs overall due to stacking talents
Etc etc etc

So no, it’s not a matter of ‘oh everyone is more skilled at the game’. It’s full on player power being jacked to the point of disrupting old mechanics.

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56

But that’s exactly my point. I like playing with all the toys. I don’t want to selfnerf or run with half empty talent trees, it’s not fun to me. I don’t want to ONLY use the meta stuff but I do want to optimize my loadouts and not feel like it’s pointless because I’m trivializing the game by just putting 30 points into a talent tree to begin with.

that’s why i don’t agree with this. For me, things have been effectively taken away. And even if I stick to the few builds that I like that are well balanced now: As I said elsewhere before, I love playing with randoms. If you’re telling me I have to not do that anymore, then something is taken away from me

One of my favorite loadouts/builds to play was kickback+cleaver on Ogryn. Yes, way back on release. This build got bit by bit powercrept so hard that there’s no situations that actually make me sweat anymroe. Now the argument is I can replicate my old gameplay by switching away from the weapons I enjoyed… It’s not realistic to say nothing has been taken away from me. It’s not a player skill thing exclusively.

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57

That players have gotten better was never the totality of my point. The other half of it is that you can turn pretty much all that other stuff off if you want.

58

That is quite frankly disingenuous to the point of deliberate idiocy.

Just because you can choose to turn off all those things does not mean that their presence is not seriously affecting the game balance for the 99.9% of players who don’t or won’t do so.

Players might have more experience, but their new toys compared to launch do far, far more to change balance.

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59

Which brings us back to the higher difficulties. You are a very skilled player, we have discussed this before. Havoc would be the place for you (unless you also trivialize that running whatever you want), but I know you have other problems with Havoc.

Maybe we’ll get an extra difficulty that takes most of what makes Havoc hard but none of the stuff you don’t like. Or maybe Havoc will get quickplay.

60

I dont see how you nerf the other players of your party…

I want the guide to forbid PG / DS in my games.