So basically make gun combat work like in the Sefoni tutorial.
Wrong again.
I can do my best to keep bad players healthbars full, but if they play like crap that’s not going to move the team towards the finish line.
A single good player can have a vastly bigger impact on succes than three deadweight healthbars.
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This is the type of brain dead argument which finds it’s way into every balance thread.
Don’t like DS4 bypassing game mechanics? Simple. Don’t use it. Don’t like that stealth agro dumps? Don’t use it.
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Youre intentionally missing the point and making it about you.
Like it’s up to us to artificially inflate difficulty by handicapping ourselves. It’s so blatantly ridiculous and honestly just stupid. Damnation is too easy? Just dont use weapons bro.
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I’m afraid suppression will simply never work in this game, at least on the higher difficulties. It’s only meaningful if enemies are not spread out and even then, weapons like Revolver or Vigilant Autogun will never be able to utilize it properly.
On top of that it’s dependent on ammunition which is a finite resource, and given the increase in its consumption should players be encourage to use suppression I think it would become a problem.
Great idea, why didn’t I think about it before? I’m gonna try it out now!
Enters a lobby with DS/EF Zealot, Bolter/VoC Veteran and Infernus/SG Psyker, they just blaze through the map killing everything effortlessly when I have to play cover shooter because the moment I’m out of position I’m dead. They can afford the risk since their builds allow them to play in a much more aggressive manner and won’t be punished almost at all if they’re caught out of position.
Ah… that’s why.
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If you want to play in a Damnation lobby where you have no influence over 3/4 of the player power and/or bring the absolute best kit along with your 500+ hours then, yea you’re gonna get what you’re gonna get. Want something harder under those conditions? Play A5s, AMs, High Havoc.
But if you want a taste of this “good ol’ fashioned Darktide when the game was “slower” and shoot outs were “tactical” (and you didn’t have 2025’s best kit or hundreds of hours of experience), then there’s a way to get that flavor too…unless you want to pretend that you’re powerless to access it or it doesn’t exist or isn’t dead-simple to attain.
Generally you want your tutorial to prepare people for the game, yeah.
Oh so if I go with my Exec Stance build into high Havocs this dynamics of people using builds with a built-in panic button doing simply better and me not being able to keep up is gonna change, right? Alright imma try it out!
Goes into AM/Havoc with Exec Stance, it gets even worse since you’re faced with higher pressure and forced to rely on your own defenses even more often.
Ah yes. So it wasn’t that.
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You wanna play with random players, ya gonna get random players. Ya want something specific, like playing a match where everyone unbinds slide for the challenge, you’ve got the power to do that too. You do!
Suppression works very well in this game and is actually a very good representation of it, if ‘real life’ is your thing. I dont have experience but it staggers the enemy into cowering for cover and not firing. They have resistance and you have to break it to make them change their behaviour
only shootouts were never “tactical”, we just did our learning phase and gave them far more credit than was due.
played black mesa the other day and its mind boggling that decades old a.i (even original half life) behaves far more varied, believable and versatile than whatever we got here.
gunners spawn, yell their pitch, stand in place firing until the timer dictates its cooldown time.
if people want to make a cowboy vs indians wagon fight outta it, go nuts.
even in beta i didnt give a flying f about “tactics” i charged em down cause it was the most efficient way to do.
anything else felt like playing rtardmode or cossplay on purpose.
now IF the ai got buffed and gunner squads actually were trying to flank, outmaneuver you or play in tandem with other units like sending in maulers under the guise of covering fire that’d be a different story.
but right now, playing such an elaborated and one sided choreography has about as much value as taking your sex doll out for dinner instead of just humpin’ it.
both makes one look like an idiot when the rest goes about their “normal” business 
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I honestly don’t ask them to make the game more difficult. But after releasing havoc with a big difficulty and that was addressing this kind of gameplay, they have released a mod for casual and beginners.
I think that the game needs to have something that woks also for the average player.
If they make havoc less difficult, it will upset the ones that want a true difficulty. It will upset also the guys like me that just want an appropriate difficulty and watch for a balance pass.
And no, i don’t believe grey weapons are a correct answer… I cannot force others to take a grey boltgun at 320 quality cause I would want to use a weak weapon…
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They’re as tactical as they’ve ever been! Which I think works well enough to be pretty engaging (and new mechanics like the walking gunners spices stuff up). There’s at least one instance per game I’d say where there’s a real gun line that poses some amount of danger and has to be dealt with (via explosives, flanking, suppression, rushing, etc.).
Yup! Which illuminates the other side of my argument: plenty of people are still experiencing Damnation like we once did (without having everything, without mastering the mechanics, without understanding the AI behaviors). It’s still there.
Edit: and before things circle back to balance, I feel required to once again say many things need nerfs (and some need buffs), and my point in this thread was never to argue that that isn’t the case.
‘Real life’ portrayal of suppression isn’t my thing. It doesn’t even do that though, since enemies should be dropping down to the ground and running to cover instead of just cowering in the open.
Mechanically speaking, the mechanic is almost entirely useless (almost since there are blessings and talents for increased damage against suppressed targets). I have already explained why that’s the case on higher difficulties, on lower difficulties on the other hand enemies simply die too easily.
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It actually doesn’t, not only it works against like 3 enemy types (Gunner Elites, basic shooters and Groaners), it is also very random, unless your using a weapon that “forces” supression, like the Flamer or Fire shotgun rounds. There were countless times of me magdumping into a Reaper with a Bolter or TLHS and him not giving a damn about it, or just shooting him with a Recon lasgun and him getting suppressed instantly.
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So we shouldn’t nerf weapons nor talents because you can just have a ‘challenge run’ where no one uses Duelling Sword / Infernus Staff / Voice of Command or whatever.
Oh wait but we do, why is that? Turns out balancing actually matters, how come? Who would have thought? Checks patch notes, Fatshark actually nerfs things as well No, that’s impossible! How come? Balancing doesn’t matter, you can just… have a challenge run or something!
I’m not gonna address your ‘no need nerf just dont use’ argumentation any further. You’ll grow out of it eventually, like all players do as they skill up in the game.
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