in other words, power matters, to a point. there are caps for each difficulty, but you will do more damage at that cap then someone at the baseline for entry.
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Oh, I agree with you there. I just donāt agree that the game has an adequate tutorial.
@Keykoh : Well, yes, Iām saying that the power that matters isnāt equal to the power shown.
At least in the beta, your actual power at very low levels was higher than shown, roughly equalling out at ~70, and then at 200, it was actually 225, witht he bonus gradually dropping until around 300 or so.
Then, above 400, your actual power only rose by 0.5 every point of shown power.
As this is apparently possible, the devs could just change the base calculation slightly so that new players are slightly stronger than right now, without touching the items or shown power level.
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Add me, Happy to do some recruit runs with you and show you how fun this game can be.
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this gem right here!
while i agree that players will find a high barrier of entry to vermintide, i strongly believe that if the player doesnāt enjoy the thrill of combat in this game, even after trying it out for 20+ maps, then sadly i think the game might not be their cup of tea.
that being said, bosses are too hard for level 1 and template gear.
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I think there is a difference between players enjoying a challenging game VS punishing new players. Many of us are coming from vermy 1 being able to do cata, or at the least having a week to level up in the preorder window. Letās think about a new player who first starts playing this series today, failing 10 or 20 games in a row is really lame, and the player base will leave. A mate who was very supportive of newbie characters in vermy 1 said it best. Todayās newbies are tomorrowās cata players. Support people to get into this game and get hooked and we have a more active community of people who will continue to try to improve.
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i agree on this point, but there is a certain level of handholding that we can do, after that, it pretty much boils down to the individual motivation of the players.
a possible training mode would be a map with no bosses.
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If there are actual metrics showing that there is a serious proportion of new players who have completed the tutorial and are still failing even 10 missions in a rowā¦then Iāll eat my words and concede the point. However, Iām not sure this is actually the case, as it really seems more like exaggeration to make a point.
Personally, I donāt see anything wrong with people failing the first few missions in the gameā¦if anything that should be the impetus to figure out their mistakes and to improve on aspects like teamwork.
I really donāt mean to come across as one of those people who simply say āgit gud,ā because thatās not very constructive or helpful. I just think that the tools already exist for new players to succeed in the game and unless thereās any real evidence new players are finishing the tutorial and still failing by those kind of margins Iām not sure thereās really any problem.
At worst I think the implications of such proof would be to expand upon the tutorials and perhaps even make it mandatory with a set of starting gear as reward for finishing it (to boost starting power a bit), not lowering the difficulty of Recruit.
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iāll say it for you
GIT GUD!
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Thats also a good idea!
Make a Mission one clearing a castle ground with rats only. (without bosses)
You can repeat this mission till you reach level 5.
That would help alot the new player base !!!
Best idea so far!
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I agree that recruit does seem a bit too hard as a ābeginnersā level, though really the only hard part seems to be when bosses arrive. I think out of all my wipes, it was always due to a boss (especially those special bosses like that fat guy in the first act, took 5 attempts to win). If they just made these bosses slightly weaker it may help greatly.
Now after playing a bit and reached level 12 and got some decent gear, recruit is a lot better. Though I feel maybe there should have been an even easier level tier just to play up to maybe level 6 (unlock new career) to help gain new and better gear, and then start doing recruit. It could ease new players into the game as they learn mechanics, maps, and enemies.
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Update,
Got boosted a bit by Keykoh from post 7 among others, got some decent gear, and decent levels. Having a blast. Thereās still the occasional whipe, but thatās fine - itās a hard game.
Basically the game got fun from lvl 5 onwards. The talent, the ~40 dmg items instead of 5 make a huge differense etc etc. I still stand by my words, that the game is too hard for lvl 1ās. Perhaps there should be a gamemode above recruit which can only be played by lvl 1-4, to get to know the mechanics and some gear?
Any case, game sucked at start, game is fun now. I dont think thatās good design, but thatās just my opinion 
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it might also be by design that you feel more and more powerful to take on larger threats so that the players such as yourself can feel the huge difference. but i guess the main issue is the starting point difficulty with the damage
I donāt understand how people are finding Recruit so difficult. Iāve never even come close to losing, with bots or people. You would have to just stand there not doing anything while a horde beats on you for quite awhile.
I never played VT1 and I went into this game not knowing anything more than the hotkeys, granted I do have +2k hours in L4D2 XD. My first game ever.
When the game released I went back to recruit as a level 30 just to unlock all the maps. Mindlessly stabbing my way through while blasting music. Felt good being OP and getting revenge on the dirty rats that curb stomped me when I tried Legend 
lol.
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Iām not sure how itās that hard, people had to do it in the open beta when recruit was vet difficulty and we had no power level. The problem 9/10 times is because people think the game is like L4D and bugger off on their own.
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I agree with the Recruit level being too difficult. I have 132 hrs on Vermintide, so Iād consider myself a veteran player. Iāve played all three of the beginning levels (Against the Grain 5 times) and havenāt beaten one once. My other Vermintide buddies report the same. I canāt imagine how frustrating it is for new players.
I love the new enemies and I like the challenge, but it just hammers you too hard in the early stages of the game so that it is difficult to level up weapons good enough to beat the levels.
A few ideas for fixing this:
- More health: I wouldnāt mind the difficulty if there was more health lying around but there is just very little to be found. With so many enemies and special vermin, thereās a frustratingly small amount of health.
- Fewer special vermin early on: In V1, youād never see more than one Rat Ogre in a level; in V2, you can see three or four of the mini-bosses as well as waves of specials, vermin and chaos beating you down while you battle them. Itās just too much to handle while you have low-power weapons
- Strategically place health between waves or hordes and mini-bosses. Itās one thing to beat a Rat Ogre and 100 vermin with no extra health, but to do it two or three times in a row with a single health potion is just crazy.
- Limit things on Recruit: Iām ok with hard games on normal or hard difficulty, but the lowest level (Recruit, in this instance) should dial down the enemies enough so that you can get used to the game and level up your weapons before you dive into the harder challenges.
I hope a patch is released soon that lowers the difficulty a bit. If they donāt, they are going to lose a huge player base of new players who just arenāt willing to put in the hours of leveling up without ever beating a level just to get weapons strong enough to allow them to succeed.
Better do it quick, too, before the first major reviews scare off too many potential āRecruitsā.
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Itās a little bit hard to believe that you beat Nightmare and Cata but canāt beat a single Recruit mission. Thatās not a problem with the difficulty, thatās just you guys failing hard as a team. Recruit was maybe comparable to Hard mode or Nightmare in beta, and now itās easier than ever.
You do in fact find WAY more health in recruit, you even start holding one which is a massive advantage. You can get downed like 3 times before you die.
There may be room for improvement for the Recruit difficulty, but at some point you just have to learn to get better at fighting.
Lastly please avoid using this type of āyou better change things or else Xā rhetoric. Itās just ineffective and ridiculous to think you know better than Fatshark. They know exactly how many players are failing when/where/how. They know their player retention, and your anecdotal argument isnāt going to persuade anyone of anything. It only cheapens the points youāre trying to make.
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Thereās a troll in every threadā¦
Luckily, Fatshark has this forum because it WANTS feedback from customers and doesnāt assume it āknows exactly how many players are failing and when/where/howā. They are also smart enough to know that I included my experience with Vermintide 1 not to boast of my achievements, but to qualify my comments as someone who has enough experience to compare it with the previous version of the game. And because they value their customers, they wonāt just say āyou need to get better at fightingā just because they can beat the levels with more ease than others can.
The fact that multitudes of other gamers (and experienced reviewers like PC Gamer) have also expressed their concerns about the frustrating difficulty of Vermintide 2 tends to validate my concerns, so itās a good thing I donāt depend on trolls to agree with me or try to judge my abilities just because I post valid feedback on a game forum.
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i feel like we had vastly different experiencesā¦ even in the closed beta when recruit was a lot harder i got wins almost every gameā¦ I too am a V1 cataclysm veteranā¦ it was definitely difficult, but doable. They toned it down a lot from what it used to be. After the server wipe going into the open beta same thing, I only had the occasional wipe due to bad RNG and/or bad teamwork. It is possible that for people who havenāt played similar types of games that they donāt have some of the basics down, and in a group of 4 that can make things insanely difficult. Keeping your head on a swivel, watching eachotherās backs, listening for special audio cues and assisting team mates asap if they get jumped or grabbed etcā¦ slow reaction times to specials is the main thing that is going to cause wipes. (also important to manage adds during a boss, block and dodge if you have aggro, etc.)
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was thinking this too
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Luckily, Fatshark has this forum because it WANTS feedback from customers and doesnāt assume it āknows exactly how many players are failing and when/where/howā.
No response from them here yet though 
it might also be by design that you feel more and more powerful to take on larger threats so that the players such as yourself can feel the huge difference. but i guess the main issue is the starting point difficulty with the damage
Could well be! Thing is though, I didnāt find it fun in this way at all. I might be a fluke, but I donāt think so to be honest. Iāve also been seeing some rageposting on reddit and other fora. People asking moneybacks on steam after a day or 2. From what I see most is because itās too hard at the start and people are ragequitting.
Seriously, a few levels and some gear (which is hard to get when youāre constantly failing, not getting lootboxes) makes SUCH a difference, itās an entirely different game for me now. Game really is fun, but the start in my opinion is just really horrible. This will show in reviews, it will scare people away, and for no good reason as the game Iām playing now is simply entirely changed compared to the startā¦
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