Ranged Gameplay Needs Rework

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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Great news to hear that blessings are getting a rework as most are outdated, a change to current range combat would be really welcoming.

Ranged gameplay slowly became dull over multiple patches and existing underlaying issues, its not fun as it was before.

  • Burst DPS Weapons > Continuous DPS Weapons
    Burst DPS Weapons deals with every type of target, Carapace, Ranged specialist , Melee elite, Armored wave lineup, also that such weapons penetrate friendly players, allowing always non wasted shot.
  • inconsistent Cover
    Cover in DT works if its full cover that blocks complete LoS, other than that they can target you, some situations even from between stair steps, or windows shades.
  • Suppressing Fire Consistency
    Some weapons are decent in suppression fire, while other does not do any suppression at all, although are able to yield very high volume of fire, even when suppressing fire nodes are selected.
  • Suppressing Fire Lacks Gradual Buildup
    Targets either shot back at you with perfect accuracy or cower behind cover, no actual loss of accuracy over suppresive modifier. (can be tested with debuff mod)
  • Sliding is best cover
    Firing from short cover was a useable tactic before all the changes over the updates , now even in cover toughness breaks super fast, while behind cover, you need to keep spamming slides which basically covers your LoS but still the heretics can shot at you, best way is to rush and force ranged units into melee.
  • Unaligned Blessings to Weapons
    One of the examples, Agripinaa Mk I Infantry Autogun got assigned buffs to controlled short bursts, while nerfs to rushing with it , yet all of its blessing are close range kill, except 2 blessings that work on 3rd & 4th shots, which is out of the recoil envelope of short bursts.
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  • Poxbomber One Way Smoke
    Ranged AI can see behind pox smoke as it dont exists, similar to early game release with low visibility (fog) maps.

  • Highly Inconsistent Recoil Pattern
    Every time you shot new pattern generates and the RNG Values are too high, recoil pattern RNG is seen mostly in competitive games or tactical shooters, while here its implemented too intense even harder than CS 2.

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DT is one of the few games with well designed ranged weapons, in terms of sounds and the feelings of firing a gun, gives you a a real atmosphere that you are firing a gun. While sadly, its not enjoyable anymore with many ranged combat wacky mechanics and multiple overlapping nerfs to ranged combat.

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I never understood this, and maybe this is because I’ve never fired an automatic weapon, but I’m fairly certain that recoil patterns aren’t the same every time you pull the trigger irl, so why would you want static recoil patterns in a game? I’ve literally never even noticed “oh, my pattern was different this time.” but maybe I’m the weird one.

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my most annoying gun feature of this game is zoom and unzoom weapon will cancel the firing

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Whenever recoil isn’t random its just ‘hold mouse down’ with a possible left or right bias. As imperfect as the shooting mechanics are I find its more of an issue with hip fire only weapons. I don’t mind resetting bursts with automatic guns if they have ADS, that is the counter balance to having a potentially full package in any one weapon imo. But weapons with no aiming ability need some ability to place accurate shots with one of their fire modes, and not ‘wide spray’ and ‘flatter wider spray’ for instance (braced autoguns).

And the bolt weapons seriously need to have recoil take place AFTER the shot is fired, so they don’t cause misses you could literally only observe by watching the footage slowed down. This mechanic is terrible and clearly a bug…

5

Remove players being suppressed, thank you.

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Nearly all FPS Tactical and Non-Tactical shooter have static recoil pattern, including insurgency , Arma, Call of Duty , Battlefield , Counter Strike (up to CSGO), Hell let loose, and also Rainbow Six Siege.

dont see a reason for Non-Tactical shooter to have such thing, and way to RNG focused, sometimes you just want to throw the gun away.

Yeah this is also an issue, each braced autogun have its own spread gain profile.

Graia gets tighter spread overtime.
Agripinaa gets wider spread overtime.

This was a test done with Graia braced autogun.

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Cover and suppression work fine, idk what this thread is honestly for.

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Against multiple crushers, yes. Otherwise, no. Even that’s not a hard rule.

There’s definitely some spots where they can thread a needle. There’s also surfaces which enemy fire can pass through, but player fire can’t. Both of these need attention. Otherwise, cover works fine.

Some weapons are better at suppression than others, yes. It’s one of the features that gives different guns their own personality. It shouldn’t be homogenised.

I’m not sure what problem you’re describing here.

I’ve literally never felt the need to spam slides while behind cover to avoid getting shot.

Some guns needs blessing pool tweaks, agreed.

Lore wise it makes sense. Gameplay wise the gas anti-fun and needs to be changed.

lmao who cares. There is almost no situation where you should be spraying an entire clip full-auto at a specific point in space.

1 Like
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8 points in the post, and 3 posts below by fellow tertium finest , just about ranged issues in general.

its about every issue in regarding to ranged combat which makes it dull and not intresting, removing the feel of a hybrid Ranged/Melee Futuristic game.

as about cover, the loop or issue in detail.

→ you got into cover while mid burst from heretic , cover works, as heretic was aiming at your general body.
→ you get shot at while in cover, they target your exposed body part as main target, their accuracy becomes better and they shot with greater accuracy and higher chance of hitting weakspot which instantly drops your toughness.

Suppression its very random and works when it want to works.
also not to confuse stagger and suppression together (debuff mod allows you to view the difference) as stagger from abilties and some high power weapons or sometimes the killing of heretics near others.

Suppresion dont build up gradually, also the losing of suppression modifier is weird.
heretics dont lose accuracy as suppression increases , they get instant shooting behavior → Pinned down behaviour.

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10

Do bullet hole decals actually go where the bullet shot calculation would put it?
Or are they just placeholder images?

Ask only because CS of old used to just spray a random decal on the wall for simplicity’s sake.

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Shooting Burst DPS Weapons even at extended range is easier and much fluid than infantry autoguns or headhunters, taking down snipers or even specialists before they become an issue is just much convenient.

Also any lined up column, Shotgunners, Gunners, Ragers, Ranged Section, heavy weight armored column of bulwark crusher reaper, whatever it is, not just crushers. Instantly wipe them.

also you skipped the part which i can just shot from my teammates, not worrying about the 3x shield walling ogyrn legions.

Its really required to spam slides when engaging ranged units, and what worse that many ranged weapons got “Increased Dodge Speed Modifier” in mobility unlike melee weapons, which decreases your window of immunity to ranged attacks, as dodges becomes faster, making things worse. Therefore a slide is required while sadly reduces your dodges by 50%.

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Not even 1 situation? never you shot full magazine and saw the barrel goes red?

Multiple Ragers, unsuspected shotgunners/gunners patrol , snipers spam etc…

There is even a full auto mod in DT, to this extent its common.

Also even shooting in short bursts the recoil pattern changes. I do Double Tapping with Agripinna Infantry Autogun , some double taps accurate some are not, also the same was with Vraks MK VII Headhunter before the nerf, although was single fire, it had a recoil pattern, and now its way too worse.

2 Likes
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Really?
Didnt know that!

Is there a way to test it out or need to view the source code?

Just to add, you can try shooting and record a video and then place 2 shooting side by side and notice the recoil pattern shifting.

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I dunno for DT !
I was just pointing out it’s probably worth a more rigorous test, as a bullet hole picture isn’t necessarily where the damage would have occurred. It might! I dunno. I just know it didn’t for the pre 2000 Counterstrike 1.6 'cos I tested that at the time :wink:

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laughs in kickback

you fun-ey, sah

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You’ve changed your statement here. By adding “at range” and “easier”, you’ve added qualifiers that are both subjective and situational and voided your original statement that burst damage is just straight better than sustained dps.

As for lined up columns… So what? That’s FAR from being the most common way that enemies appear. Using that as an example of why burst > sustained dps isn’t a strong argument.

So what you’re really talking about is the plasma rifle? Because no other ranged weapon can just bypass bulwark shields in a single shot. And if you’re talking about being able to shoot through teammates, they removed player hit mass recently. Teammates can’t block your shots anymore.

Re: Sliding - I was responding to the statement I’ve quoted here, and I stand by my response.

Not a single one of your examples requires you to keep a sustained stream of fire on a single point in space.

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honestly, i kindof agree to this point, pox gas should be a pain for AI to see through, at least until they are in it.

I honestly think this isn’t a big thing worth complaining about. if recoil were more consistent then there wouldn’t be a downside to just holding down the trigger, because you could simply ride the recoil consistently into whatever targets you’re after.

I agree with you that sliding is the most ridiculous aspect of the game - it is bizarre how much of the gameplay is based around spamming slide - honestly it just looks weird to watching a team of 4 rejects sliding around the map. I honestly don’t know why they went the route of spamming mcslide combat. I wish they would address cover better and have some sort of a cooldown on sliding.

2 Likes
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You cant really master a recoil pattern especially in weapons with low RoF due to consistency of recoil.

Just an example that even if you follow recoil pattern, horizontal recoil always stays a nightmare, this is why strafing is very common in such games .

to add on it, most those games, your target weakspot is either he is crouching/standing, maybe prone in some games. unlike DT each enemy have different body height and weakspot place.

but if you feel that it must be there, we can reduce its recoil RNG coefficient, i still play Titanfall 2, one of the early games with RNG Recoil, and the situation is much better than DT.

1 Like
18

Nothing was changed from earlier statement , its an addition with the words “even at long ranges”, which gives more reinforcement to my earlier statement that i said, that even at ranges you get better fluidness of changing between melee & ranged while having a better time frame to engage due to burst DPS, and return back to melee.

lined up columns are too common and many times you see teams losing due to line up that got alerted and not dealt with, especially mid wave.

Was talking about teammates, i need to recheck to confirm, checked back in April-May with the mod Healthbars it does reduce the damage, test was done with Graia and Agripinaa Infantry Autogun.

Yeah and i did answer you.

literarily line ups is single point of space.
also having a very fast target acquisition means that you shot before the recoil falls off, you shot mid recoil effect, stopping for 0.4 secs is not enough to remove the recoil effect on you.

1 Like
19

You literally added qualifiers that weren’t originally there.

You: Spamming slides, even when behind cover, is required to avoid taking damage.
Me: I don’t need to spam slides behind cover to avoid taking damage.
You: Spamming is required when engaging ranged units.

Like, ok, but what does that have to do with what I said?

If the ‘single point’ is roughly the size of the upper half of a bulwark shield, then sure. Though at that point recoil patterns don’t mean anything because you’re constantly shifting your aim to keep jumping from head to head anyway.

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This is why

It should not be changed as it’s part of the immersion.