Random pick of difficulties during chaos waste is killing the fun for us

My player group loved the chaos waste addon, such a great thing to renew the game. But recently many of our expedtions have ended with a sour taste. Two things tends to occure after a perfectly good begining:

  • illusion+ rampart + something else monster ( sometime twice this during citadel of eternity) going out in the last arena and making everything goes mayhem with the ennemies already roaming around.

  • Sometime, without a reason or any particular perk the game seems to just decide to hate us for a whole mission, until we reach the cairn to the next map, hordes, elite and special appear without a rest as if all the spawn rate were on “+” without it being the case.
    We thougt the bug came from the “roaming ennmy +” but have recently had it on a map without it.
    Is this something normal or a known bug?

ANyway, given the already low reward (three chest for more time than four/five quick play mission), playing for 1h+, managing to get great talent, being carefull and organise… to suddenly die just because the game has decided to be mean this time really feel unfair.

I know the dev wished to have harder pilgrimage and I mostly love the grudge monsters outside of illusionist in arenas. But I think the difficulty level need to be tune down in champion.
Legend and cataclysme mod are great for those willling to try hard (as I sometime do), but champion is where most people play “casually” and having a full evening of game thrown to ashes due to a random pike of difficulty is starting to push us out of the chaos waste.

Have a good night

ill be honest, my personal view holds little relevance for your point of view, as i’m long way from the phase were loot mattered and i personally don’t care what rewards a map drops.

but i don’t think toning difficulty down, is ever the right answer because difficulty sets the stakes, loosing everything isn’t punishment, its an insentive to improve. atleast that how i see it.

so lets analise what you had problems with, you mention illusion+rampart as a key problem for your group, that tells me 2 things

  • your group relies on ranged dmg.
    obvious answer, diversify your team.
  • and/or you don’t adapt to illusionist key word.
    what many people fail to relise is how weak illsusions actually are, they barely do any dmg, and can easily be chopped down, even with rampart buff most melee classes can kill them in just a few seconds. so what you gotta do is identify what the real monster is, and rush down the illusions with a melee heavy hitter, that way you easily should have enough time to do dmg to the real one.

hard to tell what you specificly mean, but it sounds like you were unaware of the khorn curse map modifier, it not only causes exploding skulls/blood tornados, but also unending horde.
how to deal with it? pressing on always, don’t stop and think about taking potion x over another for 10s, focus on always making progress, don’t stop just because theres a horde, always move.
and have enough, waveclear and atleast 2 special sniper. if your not confident in movement.

I’m going to have to disagree on this. Not only do they deal the same damage as the original monster, they actually benefit from Mighty or apply Crippling. They do die quite fast indeed, and the rest of this answer is somewhat of a git gud argument but seeing how the casual champion/legend player base is bad at handling a lone monster, let alone one in a horde, I get how it’s not always easy to just “chop down illusions” in the context of a game, beyond the context of the numbers.

I didn’t know either, but now that I do some past experiences make a lot of sense. :sweat_smile:

I´ve had a lot of runs without the khorne modifier where this occurs anyway too, havent been able to figure out any common point of it.

'twas a hell to deal with during a twins citadel run though, even with OP boon builds.

The non curse modifiers definitely seem off, its like a dartboard chance whether the one you saw on the map actually takes place. Probably the most annoying would be tons of specials during the skull curse in a section that is beastmen only. Just the banners make an endless horde, and there are only banners spawning most times or at least it wigs out that way on citadel often.

wasn’t aware of the khorn particularity, thanks for the info.

ABout illusions, they are only dealing a tenth of the damage but still break as much endurance as the original monster which mean you can end up bouncing around as much as the real one.

Also to be honest I’m not necessarly asking for an easier ride, but one where the difficulty is mostly consistant along it so I’m not doing a bet that the game won’t have a hard feeling about me at some point that will make the last hour irrelevant.^^

i totally failed get see thats what you mean’t, and if you put it that way i can totally get behind it.

unreleated to chaos wastes, but i think enchanters lair suffers from this aswell, while its cool to have a hard boss in the game, its quite anoying if you QP solo and randomly get enchanters lair, chances are that a lobby full of randoms won’t win this map. even tho that team could win all other maps consistantly.

illusionist regenerating mino says hi
illusionist rampart stormfiend says hi
illusionist relentless chaos spawn says hi
illusionist crippling troll says hi
illusionist shield-shatter rat ogre says hi


facetank it

facetank it

facetank it

admitedly anoying

facetank it

Yep. On veteran. On any difficulty level that’s challenging however, those and many other combos will melt just about anything instantly, unless you happen to have incredibly broken builds and extremely favorable circumstances (i.e. wide open flat terrain with no other enemies or effects). Without even mentioning all the buggy/nonsense behavior like appearing behind players in attack animations and so forth. Your statement that illusions can be killed within seconds is… generally out of touch with reality on high difficulties. On Cataclysm, each illusion has 300 hit points and they’re not sitting around pacified waiting for you to whack them. That’s a total of 900 extra hit points worth of a monster that deal damage and apply both innate effects of the original monster and the effects of other grudge-marks. It’s just an extremely broken mutator in the current implementation that by itself turns the game into a massive rock-paper-cheesers simulator.

first of all, the original post was about, champion, so nice try on changing the narrative to fit your own view of things.
second of all, it is possible to facetank these on cata with base/white kit gear, with a decent heavy hitting character that has acess to HP/on kill.

300 hp you say, 8x40dmg hits would be enough to kill it dunno about you but 8 heavy atacks take just a bunch of seconds in.

well duh, apprently an simple illustration isnt enough
obviously CC atacks and such need to be dodged or end up taking more time, but that wasn’t the point the point of an helpful tipp is to tell someone what he is supposed to do in most optimal circumstance not to exemplify what could be possible hinder you on the optimal approach…

sure there are some combinations, that are way more difficult to deal with than others, but you make it look like as soon as illsuionist is part of any combination of grudges it becomes an impossible situation, i strongly disagree, in fact a few of those you listed can be incredibly easy to deal with…

My comments were both strictly directed to the quotes that I marked from your messages, not the original post. I’m not trying to make things look in any way that is different from what they are. I’ve only explained why your statement, roughly summed up as “illusions are easy to deal with” is generally not true on high difficulty levels and why the state of Illusionist as a whole is a valid point of criticism.

Edit: I can sort of see your point if you are referencing strictly to Champion and below. But I don’t really see a way of tweaking this mutator just to specific difficulties as opposed to a global tweak.

Also it would be mildly refreshing if people could hold a conversation for once lacking mannerisms specific to Kerillian. There’s really no need to allude to one’s intellect or lack thereof, as it really has nothing to do with the way the game is designed (map layout, curse effects etc.).

i stand by it, it is easily doable in legend, and with some brain also in cata.
without any broken talents

sure you can’t take what i said, entirely one to one since there a variables that can easily change the aaproach but generally speaking it is not out of question.

8 heavies depending on the weapon can be a lot of downtime, especially when new set of illusions spawns every minute or so. Its also ignoring everything else happening around. You rarely just spank the illusionist 8 times in a row with perfect timing.

Whatever the case, illusionist is already confirmed as being reworked so long debate at this point is pretty pointless until we see the new effect.

Doesnt most of these send you flying if you actually tank them? Not all to be sure but many like the stormfiend fire blasts for instance.

Trying to move anywhere with two of these aiming for ya is misery.

the worst illusions to go ham on are minos because they can either combo stagger you with its charge or just move away vast distances all others are mostly easy to deal with,
ofc expeptions exist like stormfiends in super tight spaces but generally speaking its quite simply a dps race, others do have knockback but manipulating their atackpatterns and the occasional dodge will give you enough of a window to kill them before most illusions can do harm to the group,
just don’t go into the old habit of blocking groundslam or other non knockback atacks such as the multihit atack of the chaosspawn
and obviously don’t attempt to do this while you have the aggro of the original monster.
having a dash also helps to reenter melee range if you don’t manage to avoid knockback atacks.

i would say zealot is best equiped to do this as he has increased meleepower, acess to heavy hitting weapons, doesnt mind loosing some HP as he can regain it quickly, and a low cd dash, but other careers can do so aswell.