Psyker "Rework" is focused on accommodating the playstyles of other classes but adds nothing to Psyker's unique playstyle

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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Psyker main here, 1700 odd levels, Purgatus main. This is a bit of a rant.

I had been concerned that any potential Psyker rework would be lead and shaped by devs, testers, and players that don’t really like Psyker. I pay attention to the community enough to hear the opinions of Psykers that many of the players on the test server have. Looking at the new patch notes my fears are entirely confirmed. Most of the additions are there to accommodate playstyles that are far more comfortable to players that mostly enjoy other classes, ie, melee and clicking heads. If I want to focus on a melee based playstyle, I can play Zealot. If I want to focus on clicking heads, I can play Veteran.

I’m going to go through the relevant section of the patch notes, and point out exactly what I mean.

Big boost to gun Psyker, good for veteran mains that are used to suppression immunity. Malefic Momentum is mostly going to trigger from Assail spam or incidental soulblaze kills via perilous combustion, to the benefit of guns and melee.

This has the most potential for staff users who want to entirely ignore peril management. With enough ult cdr they will be able to sit at 100 peril forever. Managing peril is one of the defining aspects of psyker gameplay, but this change just adds a way to turn it off while still getting all the benefits of max peril.

Some extra damage for a melee psyker.

I am completely confused by weapon wield speed being placed over here on the left in what is presumably the staff side of the tree. It is the gate to the other staff based talents, but seems perfectly useless as staves already equip and fire pretty much instantly. Maybe a gun psyker would dip for this point if they were over this side of the tree to path through Perilous Combustion and Psykinetic’s Aura. The two staff focused talents focus on the primary fire, the most gunlike aspect of the staves, and so are likely to appeal most to players who enjoy a clicking heads focused playstyle.

Great set of new talents for visiting Zealot mains. Souldrinker being placed behind melee attack speed I guess is an attempt to help give them a bit of toughness sustain and a familiar crit chance boost.

I guess every other class gets some base rending these days, so we wouldn’t want Psykers being left out. A large reduction to peril generation, good for players struggling to manage the core mechanic at the cost of less toughness. If the ‘toughness replenished’ only applies to coherency, which seems probably as the wording matches the old +10% toughness replenished, then it barely has any cost.

Guns guns guns, welcome in veteran mains.

And just in case you don’t like the mechanic of being punished with a down for failing the core mechanic, you can now turn it off.

We get access to new weapons, but guns and swords. Where are the new staves? We get some new blessings on staves, but they are either useless, or bland power/rending buffs, but nothing to add an interesting dynamic to how you might play.

My conclusion is that these changes are not for players that actually enjoy Psyker, they are for players who primarily enjoy other classes that want to dip their toes into Psyker while retaining familiar playstyles. I’m not fundamentally against the idea of the class being more accessible to players that prefer other playstyles, but the fact that players who actually enjoy the unique aspects of the Psyker playstyle get nothing is extremely disappointing. It is clear that the people driving these changes do not actually enjoy the unique aspects of the psyker playstyle and this is the sad but inevitable result.

Just to make it clear, imo the crux of the Psyker appeal is high risk vs reward with dynamic management of a renewable but small pool of resources. The talent rework last year mainly worked to minimize risk while increasing reward, effectively diluting the Psyker’s mechanical identity and appeal. This patch merely continues that trend towards a bland class identity that is a designed as a comfortable alternative for players that are bored of their clicking heads/melee mains and want to add a touch of warp spice to their experience.

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Nah, there are multiple new talents and talent reworks which affect the traditional psyker playstyle and add to it. On the top of that there multiple changes and additions which add to gun-psyker and open up a bit the possibilities around more frontline focused psyker.

In my book more variety of playstyles per class results in more replayability. Surely after 1700+ hours in the game you would appreciate that? Even as “Purgatus main” :face_with_head_bandage:

Also a side note: “Melee” psyker plays differently to zealot, ogryn or melee focused vet. Your base stats, survivability, mobility, key talent interactions, a lot of other stuff is just different.

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The peril management ones are unnecessary i think. Peril is already a non issue. The last thing psyker needs are ways to make it even more of a redundant feature.

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This is a big concern for me as well. There will be so many ways to apply rending and brittleness (will enemy armor even matter anymore) with this patch, it makes me wonder if fatshark is preparing for a new difficulty. Really, a lot of these changes seem they will make the players completely busted in terms of power. They have to realize how broken a lot of these things will be and maybe it is in preparation for a new difficulty. The enemies have received very little to scale with us. They cant just add in all these new blessings and talents without doing something to the enemies to compensate.

Overall i agree. In my opinion, the game is losing a lot of identity with these changes. It seems like you will be able to mindlessly throw together an OP kit that counters everything.

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Psyker plays differently, in both ranged and melee, than the other classes, and that’ll be true after the tree rework. Space wizards will be able to do everything they did before and will have new options, including leaning right into the glass cannon with Empyric Resolve.

I love Psyker for its very different blitzes, crit-based talents, force weapons and glass cannon feel (with or without a staff). And now that I’m reading Eisenhorn, I also love it for the flavor of popping off a few rounds and then blasting some brains with my will.

Peril management has always been a pretty minor consideration, and certainly not where the fun (nor risk) has ever really been for me.

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So this talent interests me a lot because we haven’t seen it in action yet.

  • How exactly does it work when you go >100%?
  • Do you still have a visual animation like the lead up to the explosion when you hit >100%?
  • If there’s no visual warning/forced interruption of casting when you hit 100%, how much corruption is generated? A whole bar? A steady stream?

Depending on the answers to these questions, this could actually be more punishing for bad players and/or more rewarding for people who already have good peril management.

For example for bad players, if there is no visual indicator outside the 100% that they already ignore/don’t notice, then they could theoretically keep casting non-stop and permanently kill themslves because they got corrupted below their final wound.

On the other hand, if the corruption is generated via a stream and not whole chunks, a good player could decide to trade a little corruption for that extra single cast.

edit - Oh and I just had a thought, if it does still make an explosion you could even choose to trigger one on purpose in exchange for the corruption it brings.

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The fact that there will be nodes that focus on the primary of staves is baffling beyond all comprehension.

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+30% damage, either which way, for doing more than one attack over and over doesn’t seem like a head-scratcher to me at all. :person_shrugging: It should be mechanically more interesting, and if the extra damage doesn’t appeal to you it’s also totally optional.

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Yeah, I’m not a fan of this also. Fatshark has a weird habbit of introducing game mechanics which then are invalidated through talent or blessing or…made safe by buffs (plasma).

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Right, because the M1 attacks are so interesting, diverse and engaging. Almost as interesting as all the blessings that do not function on the main attack of staves.

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idk i personally do like the option to go more melee oriented with every class and psyker is no exception to that. The talents that support that playstyle are more than welcome in my book.

I do agree that some talents could be bit more interesting than flat -40% peril generation and whatever else was there. It just makes the already meaningless management of peril even less of an issue.

Staff left clicks doing 30% extra damage instead of making left clicks do some extra things is also such a missed opportunity in my mind.
Like how cool would be that instead of 30% damage instead we get that the attacks on hit chain to nearby enemies or something more wild. Yeah damage is still “useful” i guess but its just such a boring way to make people care for left clicks.

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I’m coping and hoping that it’s an indicator of FS wanting to rework the primary attacks on all staves in the future, since as you say keeping these new blessings tied to the blaze bolts is absolutely baffling.

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Considering all the other changes in the upcoming patch, making Psyker (more) baby seems perfectly fitting.

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I dunno. Surge staff crit rate now it can get the surge blessing could probably do some pretty nasty primary fire. Could be pretty damn useful for things out of the right click range. It’s not the most interesting but talking like it definitely won’t have use cases seems dubious.

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The obvious reading of “Overloading through Perils of the Warp no longer knocks you down, but you still take the appropriate Corruption Damage.” is that everything will remain exactly the same except you don’t get knocked down.

Your peril will reset to zero. You will take a wound of corruption. You will explode doing small aoe damage. And it will still put you in the stun animation for a few seconds to give you a chance to vent and get back out and avoid the consequences. The only difference suggested by what they have written is that you won’t need a teammate to come pick you back up afterwards.

If we’re imagining what would have actually been a cool way to alter the mechanic, then also giving it the same damage and range as a Ogryn’s Frag Bomb is about the only thing I can imagine ever maybe wanting to do on purpose.

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Out of curiosity, which new talents and reworks do you have in mind? And how do you see them expanding on the traditional Psyker playstyle in a way that isn’t just adding some version of clicking more heads, doing more melee, or ignoring Psyker mechanics?

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I assume gun-psyker is something that’s in the WH40K lore, because most games the ‘wizard’ class doesn’t get to go sword+gun?

I’m leaning towards the OPs sentiments, even if I’m not as experienced with it to verify all the points raised. I think I’d prefer more effort in to pushing the identities of the staffs, and encouraging that aspect more so than yet another brauto player appearing on the roster. I do use gun psyker, but generally only when I have to clean up Melk ranged kill tasks as I prefer the Purgatus staff and a different playstyle from the other classes.

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utmost incompetence of FS balance team shine once again

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Come on, you know exactly which new talents, you simply dismiss those because they dont fit into your preconceptions and preferred playstyle. Some talents were clearly introduced for staff users only, others benefit multiple weapon classes. Whatever the staff focused talents are well thought out options that remains for discussion. I can say the same thing about the “other” side of the talent tree.

Your aversion to talents and builds which don’t fit into your preferred psyker playstyle is clear here. Maybe its time to stop being a Purgatus main for few hours and try something different? At least half of those talent changes affect staff users. More if you consider melee related talents and would like to weave between warp and non-warp attacks with that new Malefic Momentum loop.

I agree with some of your observations, and I also don’t like removal of the “risk” aspect from the peril build up. I would love for Fatshark to diversify the light attacks on staves, just as it was on VT2, “maybe” add a new staff. However claiming Fatshark totally ignores the classic psyker, because they added “new” non warp weapons, when…literally all of them are weapons which already exist in the game, is “slightly” manipulative.

Some of you act here like non-staff wielding psyker is a new thing. The “other” side of the tree has been there for a year now. More variety of playstyles in ANY class for me is a good thing. Even if that does not necessarily always cater to my preferred playstyle or class fantasy.

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Finally, as I intended to do it anyway.

Few thoughts about Fatshark acknowledging that there is some space on the talent tree for a “melee” psyker playstyle after all. Whilst I appreciate the addition of new melee focused talents, the proposed Mettle talent change is likely scre…over the current “safe” melee psyker builds. It’s all about melee toughness regen and DR mechanics and how they tie to peril.

As it stands now psyker is lacking a dependable toughness regen mechanics. Most of the current psyker toughness regen is tied to peril and warp attacks. As a melee psyker you want your peril to be high at all times for toughness regen, damage and damage resistance.

The problem is that the current state of the talent tree gives you limited options for peril generation on demand if you are trying to stay in melee. A lot of weapons and abilities which generate peril on attack, fit poorly into the chaotic nature of melee. The most dependable are probably force swords and Assail. Scrier’s Gaze is fine, but it has a cooldown, also its not a great design for a playstyle to depend for toughness regen on the active ability.

So lets go over the available options. Assail is fine, however weaving it in melee leads to challenges around spacing, but there is a reason why I tend to include it in “melee” psyker builds, unless I run force swords.

Now to force swords. The first issue: you tie the melee playstyle to one single weapon type. Secondly force swords are not that enjoyable to use in melee. They lack decent cleaving combos, their special attacks are not useful (with Illisi’s being an exception), and remain cumbersome to use, despite some special attack changes. Sadly that special attack (or blocking attacks with fs) is the only real, on demand option for peril generation and maintenance.

Mettle talent with its toughness on critical attacks was that “fairly” dependable toughness regen mechanic, AND gave you a decent movement speed boost. That almost gave you a baby Warp Speed ability from the 40k lore. Sadly the ability soon will no longer trigger the crit multiple times on the same attack. No, Mettle isn’t Invocation of Death or Tactical Awareness equivalent, it doesnt reset your ability at insane rate. Nor gives psyker unfair advantage. Especially when ogryn and zealot swim in toughness regen and DR simply by existing, dodging and hitting targets.

Souldrinker is an interesting addition as it seems to be on the right side of the talent tree. Lets assume it will work on kill of any enemy affected by Soulblaze. For self sustainability, this again would tie you to ONE weapon class: force swords with a Riposte/Shred + Blazing Spirit. That is quite a sacrifice already in melee power.

Anyway we will see when those changes are released whatever these changes manage to suck out the fun out of “melee” playstyle for me. Atm, I remain “concerned”.

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