Iâm pretty well convinced dodge slide is an intended mechanic. So honestly I find that hypothetical a bit too improbable to bother trying to work out how this would all play out without that pretty fundamental mechanic. Initial reaction without thinking too hard about it is that itâd probably still be fine maintaining charges, but without communion/KB you wouldnât be able to play as much at the frontline as you can currently.
Regarding keybindings I use toggle sprint and hold crouch and have gotten very used to hitting ctrl out of sprint or dodges. With hold crouch you only have to tap it and youâll automatically get out of the crouch at the end of the slide. Feels very smooth to me currently.
@1Cake Theyâre referring to sliding out of dodges which that screenshot still does not explain or even suggest exists.
Sorry, I didnât realise that.
Iâve donât rely on dodge slides. Theyâre more of an annoyance to me and feel clunky/counter intuitive.
Theyâre really not necessary and just something people use to compensate for poor positioning a lot of times in my experience. (When somebody spams them)
You could oneshot shotgunners before the patch.
1 Like
Plenty if you paid attention. Warp charge damage buff on 6 charges up from 18% to 24%. New damage breapoints on few elites/specials.
A QoL update everyone was asking for: warp charges now fall off gradually (seperate timers). This makes âmaintaing stacksâ so many people obssessed about far easier. Ascending Blaze with a Voidstaff is far more effective and requires less prep.
Half charging brain burst on enemy killed by a team mate now gives a warp charge.
Cerebral Lacerations is more attractive now, even if other options in that row are objectively stronger if you are after sustain.
Yeah have been flamers which i thought about.
1 Like
I think those are still 2 shots, even with 6 warp charges.
That wasnât in the patch notes, it was always a feature, though I think it only works on taggable enemies because Iâve definitely had chaff killed by team mates when I was more than half cast and not gotten the charge.
Pretty sure they are still 2 shots on Damnation yeah. On Heresy though I think you previously needed 5 or maybe 6 warp charges to one shot them. Not sure how many you need now but definitely not more than 4, so theyâre definitely noticeably easier to one shot there.
Personally I think it helps take pressure off level designers (who would otherwise have to make sure every single area of the game had good cover for a firefight).
It also just plays to the spirit of V2 (where perfect play means you basically avoid all damage, and you can basically do that in DT too with proper dodge-slide use; although dodges by themselves get you most of the way there too).
Also enables melee to do their job tying up ranged enemies. Even my Psyker uses their Dueling MkV to +15% dodge into melee quite often, because itâs just way faster/easier to deal with ~8 shooters in melee with swishy-swashies than slow head-popping or ranged fire (and perhaps most importantly it disables those shooters so they arenât shooting the rest of your team).
I do think conversations should be had about unlimited dodge limits (Force Sword) and weapons that easily reach +15% dodge distance, as both of those things can feel a little excessive.
I also think something does feel off about dodge-sliding currently, though Iâm not sure exactly what I would change, or even specifically what I feel is off. I do know with examples like the Dueling MkV that it feels really weird that I can move much faster sideways than I can forward (crab-psyker is not a myth!), but at itâs core thatâs probably just a duplicate of the âis 15% dodge too far?â conversation I just mentioned.
I also think they should just rebind dodge by default (for new players only) to a separate key. Itâs super weird they want jump/dodge on the same key by default. Itâs like Motion Blur or double-tap-to-dodge: the correct move is to disable it in every single game.
Ehhh⌠Thatâs kind of a cop out to me. If the level designers arenât up to the task of ensuring thereâs cover in their shooter game, thatâs on the company, not on relying on some janky movement.
Eh, normally dodges or slides work just fine without giving yourself carpal tunnel in my experience. Assuming the servers arenât crapping themselves, timing a dodge or slide with the gunflash of a shooter will avoid it. The issue is the game doesnât handle this well so you get people doing the Darktide equivalent of wave dashing all over the place. I strongly dislike it. Vermintide had a much better balance of actions/activity over the frantic mashing Darktide encourages with the strength of dodge sliding. I donât think itâs necessary but if youâre willing to give yourself the aforementioned carpal tunnel itâs definitely effective. (For the wrong reasons IMO) You can achieve similar results with better play.
Like I said above, you can achieve the same results just with better timing/play. Dodge slides just let you do it in a really cheesy way.
This is getting beyond the scope of psyker balance though. All I was getting at is that psyker is fine even without relying on dodge slides. Iâll freely admit Iâve never been a fan of gimmicky âmove techâ and whatever name people give to what are fundamentally exploits. Not necessarily saying dodge slides are exploits as as far as Iâm aware theyâre currently in a weird grey area with how spammable they are and how good they are in conjunction with them functioning as both a dodge and damage reduction for some classes, not to mention what you said, how fast they allow you to move if youâre willing to be a human crab. At best I think theyâre poorly balanced in the current game by lowering the overall skill floor in favor of learning a single mechanical skill. When you have people setting up keybinds solely around their ability to spam one thing thatâs problematic, regardless of overall balance. (Though people should definitely setup the dodge bind separately if only to avoid accidental jumps when they want to dodge)
Flashbacks of movetech Slayers and Grail Knights intensifies
*In the normal pace of combat/generally, Monsieur Cheeky 
1 Like
Is it? It just lets level designers do more visually distinct areas. Like you couldnât have that center part in Metalfabâs Forge (where the molten metal pours out and you can see it from all directions quite far away) if you had to worry about making those fences bigger and adding more computer consoles blocking vision (because you needed them to function as cover).
Yeah I do think thatâs the part that feels slightly off to me, so it would be nice to figure out a happier middle ground. A significant factor is the lack of a medium-length downtime after youâve burned your dodge-slides. (Meaning if you dodge-slide to the limit, you can still do it again only like 1-2 sec later, even if youâre still in a fairly disadvantaged position.)
Could be something like âadding a slide to your dodge counts against the dodge limit, but now slides extra farâ. So essentially itâs a mechanism for letting you spend double your dodges (for 2.5x the value).
Actually makes me wonder if they could:
- dodges/slides cost stamina
- remove dodge limit from weapons
- but add dodge/slide cost multiplier to weapons
Mostly I just want a visual way to see when Iâm at/near dodge limit, and having it just be part of stamina is both logical and would give me that indicator. But yeah, this would be quite disruptive to current balance and they have a hundred better things to work on in the shortterm if they want to salvage the game.
Sure, but weâre not calling dodge-sliding an exploit right? Seems clearly intentional that enemies donât shoot you while sliding.
This wonât stop wont it until brainburst literally 1 shots every special and elite in damnation?
Yeah psyker could use some more tweaks especially in talent department but i really cannot see how infinitely buffing brainburst is going to help.
7 Likes
They already circumvent that issue by having that area not spawn gunners/shooters in the first place. (Barring snipers) Not really a good example honestly
A more problematic area is the sewer area of the assassination mission that I canât think of the name of. That said it already has cover, it just needs some of them to actually be tall cover.
@ dodge limit: Yeah thatâs bothered me from the start, the complete lack of any indication. Itâs particularly problematic on ogryn where it can be difficult to tell when itâs technically kicking in. You can work around it but itâs obnoxious. Iâm not really sure how to fix it honestly, frankly I think sliding should be tied to sprinting but as I said, I really dislike dodge sliding as it stands so Iâm very, very biased. Theyâd need to fix the potato servers before that though.
Not dodge sliding itself, the sheer spammability of it abuses the fact that dodges and slides both break ranged enemy tracking. It effectively removes any timing element of dodges or slides from the equation due to how erratic you can be with them. Thatâs what I was referring to with the âWrong reasonsâ comment. Again, not really sure how to fix it as itâs just an abuse of systems without reworking dodges and/or slides and/or the combination of them. It would be like being able to negate any melee enemy in Vermintide or Darktide by infinitely spamming dodges in general if you mashed it twice as fast; extremely problematic design wise.
Like I said, itâs a grey area of just poor balance/poor design combining to make something stronger than it might appear on paper if somebody is willing to give themselves carpal tunnel. (Which, hey! Just found out today an injury I got aggravated my wrist and is giving me early onset carpal tunnel, woohoo!) Turns out things like that are unhealthy, who knew?
Excuse you sir, if they donât make brain burst kill everything for me with its auto aim I might otherwise have to try and actually learn the game and we canât have that. Brain burst bad, psyker worst class, plz delet.
1 Like
I feel like youâre making out dodge sliding to be significantly more overpowered than it is. Even spamming it itâs very possible for enemies to shoot you between the end of one slide and the start of the next dodge. Zealot with TWBS doesnât care too much thanks to stagger immunity but for everyone else there is genuine risk of getting stagger locked between dodges and pounded pretty hard before you have a chance to recover.
I also honestly donât mind it being faster than sprinting in some instances. Itâs not hard to do but itâs certainly more interesting and stimulating than just pressing shift + W as your main movement option.
I dunno I just donât really see a problem with it as is. Itâs still just as limited by effective dodge count as normal dodging is. Arguably less abusive than dodge jumping in VT2 where you kept most of your momentum with good timing and your dodges had fully recovered by the time you hit the ground.
1 Like
I agree that dodge slides arenât super op, but it might need some tweaking. I havenât personally broken my fingers to slide around like a psycho, but I have seen a notable amount of discussion on it.
Only problem with sliding in my opinion is that Zealot Preacher is literally IMMUNE during theirs. Like, 50% damage reduction or something would make sense, but immunity?! Idk seems kinda weird to have a âDark Souls rollâ on only 1 class.
1 Like
@LVSpooky summed up a lot of it on top of the aforementioned. It breaks tracking, then on top of that you get damage reduction on everyone but ogryn. Itâs far too strong for what it is when thereâs little to no thought involved in it. If you actually time some dodges/slides on top of it it gets even sillier. It gives you a very, very easy escape option thatâs far stronger than it should be in contrast to anything else you can do most times (If youâre caught in a bad position).
Iâm probably making it sound like theyâre stronger than they are in my opinion because like I said, I really hate things like them as theyâre flat out unhealthy for the game and for the actual player. I do think theyâre too good but I donât think theyâre to fully game breaking levels or anything, just stupid that theyâre as strong as they for bare minimum effort mechnically. (And unhealthily) I just find them pretty cheesy and lame.