Still, why suggest to change the whole thing when there is a simple fix by just scaling down the damage?
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Unless they tweak everything to scale with difficulty level, I doubt itâs going to change. Iâm not sure of the exact numbers for other difficulties, but Damnation health pools are 2x baseline - an across-the-board change to fix the issue at one difficulty would break it at another difficulty.
I can only assume that weapons are balanced relative to Damnation difficulty, with the intention of âThis weapon should be strong enough to do hardest difficulty, in conjunction with player skillâ. Weâre probably not there just yet though
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Because thatâs not how the whole game works.
It would be a change that affects only 1 skill, it would make no sense.
It would apply to the skill that works like a weapon, where damage scaling makes sense.
It already indirectly applies to all weapons.
âIt would be the only thing that works like thatâ is not an argument against anything btw.
I am pretty sure that the krak grenade is the only thing in the game that has selective homing.
The plasma gun is probably the only gun in the game that has effectively infinite cleave on its projectiles.
The rest of the game does not work exactly like that.
So what?
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Have you read the the first message? My proposal has nothing to do with the power of the shards, just their mechanics.
They nerfed them to be less spammed but they ahieved nothing because spamming achieve the best result in most situations.
By changing their mechanics it does not matter the difficulty you are playing, the spam can not occur.
Look, your message is a mess of nonsequiturs.
I accept you donât want to see any change ever, itâs ok. Itâs an acceptable opinion.
Not true.
Since you now need to spam it much more to get the same result, you can no longer spam it at as many enemies.
More downtime because more spamming is required to kill each enemy.
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If they enemy needs 2 shots to be killed it does not matter that there 100 or 150 overkill damage, the amount of spam remains the same.
What the hell are you talking about?
You now need to spam about 2x as many shards to kill the same number of trashmobs (before the nerf, you could 1 shot most regular enemies with assail, now you can not anymore).
So not only does it take 2x as long to kill them, but also will you run out of shards much faster.
You can not spam down as many enemies as before, because you need more shards to achieve the same result and because you now have more downtime.
Here is an example (not 100% correct numbers) to visualize what i mean:
If you could previously kill 6 trashmobs with 2 assail casts (3 hits per shard, 1 hit per kill), it would take you 2 seconds to kill them and then 3 seconds to get the shards back.
Now, it takes 4 casts (3 hits per shard, 2 hits per kill), so it takes you 4 seconds to kill them and then 6 seconds to get the shards back.
Before, you could continuously kill groups of 6 trashmobs with 3 seconds of break in between.
Now, you need 6 seconds of break in between, or you run out of shards.
It is a massive difference.
The overall number of shards being spammed might be the same, but the resulting killing power is lower, leaving more enemies for the teammates.
I am pretty sure that nobody actually cares if a psyker can spam the shards all day, if they do not kill anything.
And at the same time as assails âspamable power outputâ was massively reduced (on damnation+), a bunch of enemies got extra health, while basically every single weapon got buffed.
Assails absolute power was reduced by a lot.
And assails relative power was reduced by a lot, because of how powerful a lot of the regular weapons are now.
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yeah⊠it does not take 4 cast of shards to kill mobs, not even on damnation. You just need 2.
I am pretty sure that you did not read what i actually wrote, so i am gonna give you the opportunity to read it properly and then respond properly, before i tell you why your statement makes no sense.
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The Autogun has to actually has toâŠaim, requires grinding for good stats and perks/blessings, needs to compete for consumable pickups, and is the more important single component of the Veteranâs gameplay and offensive output.
For Assail, aiming is optional, doesnât even need you to be fully leveled to be functional at maximum effectiveness, doesnât care about your gear, canât run dry when consumable pickups are rare or heavily competed for, is supposed to be a supplemental support ability (that currently massively outperforms the utility of its alternatives), and Assail can recharge fast enough to be used against an immediate emergency target about as fast as most guns can reload (even if it canât recharge fully in that time period).
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But with the autogun, your projectiles actually almost go where you aim, while assail attacks are not that reliable.
And the effectiveness of a gun is already comparable, before it is at its max.
Wrong. Assail runs dry very easily, so you have to wait for recharge.
Ammo is nowhere near as problematic as some people like to claim.
And as long as ammo is not an issue, a fast reload is much more convenient than waiting for stacks to regen.
Also, the gun wonât suicide you if you do not pay attention.
I played a few matches with a buddy on his vet, after update 14.
I was using assail and purgatus.
He was using krak grenades and braced autogun.
That is how our stats looked every time ± a few %.
As you can see, he basically only used his gun.
He never ran out of ammo and we did not even deploy the ammo crate that we had.
Fyi i have about 3x the playtime on my psyker, that he has on his vet (with almost none since patch 13).
I am aware of the fact that he picked up almost all of the ammo, but none of the teammates ran out of ammo and as you can see, he basically never put his gun away. He could have used his melee against hordes and probably gotten more dmg with less ammo used.
According to you and a few others who made it up.
You can quickly get 1 shard back.
In the time it takes to get 2 shards, you can pretty much fully reload any gun.
Any 2 seconds downtime allow you to fully reload your gun.
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Iâm pretty sure that the fact that you changed your message 4 times has nothing to do with itâŠ
There was no point at which your response would have made sense, because i never claimed that it would take 4 hits to kill a single enemy.
I also usually get 2 edits for nothing, because for some reason, the citation often gets instantly removed from my post the moment i post it, adding 1 edit.
Then i add it back in immediately, which produces a 2nd edit.
So do you agree, that your response does not make sense in regard to the information that is currently present in the post that you responded to?
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It is not.
But it is funny that you would say this, because this is one:
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If you canât understand that you cannot have 1 single skill behave differently (logically, not mechanically) than all the others in the game I canât add anything.
And why would that be the case?
I am not sure, where exactly you want to draw the line between logical and mechanical differences, but in some games, bleed damage has the unique behavior that it does % based dmg.
Apparently, that is not impossible. I am pretty sure that this is a logical difference, not a mechanical difference.
Until patch 13, the veteran ult was the only one that in itself was a buff, and the only one that worked with a duration.
That is not just a mechanical difference.
This is basically our discussion so far:
âThis can not be done.â
I disagree. Why would it not be possible?
âBecause.â
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Logical (itâs applied to the whole game): the damage you deal does not change with difficulty, only the enemy health pool
Mechanical (itâs applied to single aspects of the game): a knife is a single target throw, a bomb is an AoE throw, a braing burst is a single target charged attack
That is a completely mechanical description.
Iâm not sure I understand the argument here. From my experience, you can have your cursor not even over an enemy, fling shards, and itâll seek out and land head weakspot hits. Just for giggles in the Psykanum, I look at the Dreg Gunner, walk backwards across the arena and place my back to the pillar between the Shotgunners and Poxwalkers, aim half a body height above the Dreg Gunner, left click Assail, and Assail will land that headshot on its own, killing him in three clicks, four with really bad luck, which isnât much different than trying to do the same with a kitted Kantrael XII if Iâm just left click center-mass shooting (not using the optic for headshots), except that Iâll probably need four-six shots because a couple will miss if Iâm shooting fast due to recoil spread, plus I have to actually aim exactly at the target.
Unless youâre talking about Assail hitting other targets first in crowded areas? Guns can have that problem too, and Assail at least has the right click lock-on option.
I donât believe I accept that, but even if we do, you still need to do a whole lot more to it, a lot of guns are extremely reliant on getting at least a couple perks/blessings to properly work (especially at higher difficulties), and you certainly arenât matching Assail with a Blue 330-level weapon or a gray 370 for example. You arenât getting anything near the killing power out of a lvl7 Vet that you can a lvl7 Assail psyker. A lvl 25 Assail psyker can be getting max damage potential and utility out of Assail, you canât do that with a Veteran and a gun.
Waiting for a Recharge isnât the same as running dry. When youâre out of Ammo, no amount of sitting around waiting will fix that. The Veteran doesnât have the option of switching to another primary ranged weapon, the Psyker can dump their shards and then whip out their own gun or stave and switch back and forth as desired.
Itâs a highly variable one. Some games it not an issue at all. Some games its an intense competition that can absolutely sink runs. Sometimes itâs an issue for a specific section of a mission. I find it a dramatically greater concern on my Veteran than managing Shards is on my Psyker.
Sure, but again, the Psyker can also switch to their own gun or staff if in danger of that. These arenât mutually exclusive options on a Psyker. The Vet has no such option.
More to the point, from full shards, you can dump the entire load of ten shards plus three more that generate in the time it takes to shoot them all, and not pop. If youâre running Warp Siphon build (my current setup), Iâll only hit 80% in that process with Warp Charges up. I can purge to zero in a couple seconds or Shriek if I need to, and/or swap to my Voidstrike staff with Transfer Peril. With large groups I can frequently dump my shards, switch to the staff, and literally purge to almost zero just blapping hordes/gunners in the head without ever needing to Purge/Shriek. Itâs not totally irrelevant, Iâll grant that, and itâs a bigger pain for some builds than others, but there are also tons of tools available to address it.
What other Blitz ability can be used in anything near the same consistency as a primary damage dealing tool against the bulk of variety of opponentâs offered for the entire game? If youâre not willing to admit Assail is an outlier on those counts, weâre not playing the same game, simple as.
Canât do it with Smite, canât do it with Brain Burst, canât do it with Rock, canât do it with Box-o-Grenades, canât do it with a Big Frag, canât do it with Frag, Krak or Smoke, and certainly not with Stun/Immolate grenades. The closest equivalent, the Zealotâs knives, donât offer anything near the same capability or utility, and cannot be used in place of a primary weapon.
Most damningly, the Psyker gives up little to run Assail over Brain Burst or Smite. If I want to run Empowered Brain Rupture, my build probably doesnât look much different from an Empowered Assail build, except the Assail psyker will be better against everything that isnât a Boss or Ogryn, and I can engage those big targets with a Voidstrike staff and a Force Sword.
Itâll take you about as much time to regenerate 2-3 charges as to reload most guns. That wonât stop a full health charging Rager, but can address some targets, and you certainly wonât need to wait for the full recharge to address that Rager. Again however, itâs not a binary option for the Psyker the way it is for a Veteran, the Psyker can use both Assail and a gun/stave.
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