You know what else requires you to charge it, before it deals big dmg in one hit?
The plasma gun.
Would you say that a plasma gun with infinite ammo has low uptime, just because you have to charge up the shot, before it deletes the target?
How would it be equivalent, when one does about 6x the dmg of the other, has unlimited range, deals damage to carapace armor and unyielding, does not need continuous los and does not require you to keep aiming at the target?
You are basically claiming that a plasma gun and an auto gun would be equal, if they had the same rate of fireâŚ
Both abilities have high uptime.
The difference is, that one of them requires charge up before deleting the entire enemy in one hit.
The other requires you to continuously shoot the enemy before it dies to multiple hits.
I donât know what the plasma gun has to do with anything, but it is further bound by a finite ammo pool, rather horrid ammo economy that forces you to be discerning with your attacks, and lengthy reload animations. Youâre greatly encouraged to make use of your melee weapon the majority of the time and grenades against clusters of targets in order to preserve a precious and finite ammo supply.
You can cast BB whenever you want, but its usage is restricted in practice by a lengthy animation that makes it hazardous to use when being pressured.
The knives however can be cast instantly at a momentâs notice. They have a large magazine that constantly regenerates at a pace fast enough that you can use them the entire match comfortably with almost no downtime. Theyâre the gross outlier. Theyâre having their cake and eating it too.
What the plasma gun has to do with this, is, that it works similarly.
You charge it up and then you deal big damage.
BB works like the plasma gun.
It is basically an additional weapon.
I explained that already.
Psykers always had BB, which is like an infinite ammo plasma gun with 100% uptime and nobody complained.
Psykers got smite, which is the old surge staff (probably on steroids) and nobody bats an eye.
Psykers get assail, which again behaves like an additional gun (with extra slow projectiles) and people complain that the psykerâs blitz ability has high uptime and is basically an additional weapon.
Also not sure how this is supposed to make sense, when you just have to aim at the target for a split second and can then look in any direction and move anywhere while casting your bb under pressure.
Meanwhile, you can instant cast assail, but in order to actually hit an enemy that is not directly in your face, you have to keep looking right at it (which massively reduces your awareness) and can not move anywhere that cuts the line of sight (which massively limits your freedom of movement).
Unless you want to kill a berserker that is right up in your face, you basically got it backwards.
I think this is just a respectfully agree to disagree situation. Comparisons are always being drawn between the classes, with good reason. Thatâs the core of balancing the game.
The uniqueness of the blitz is not at all something I have issue with, the opposite. I love assail because itâs so unique. I simply think it needs to have itâs uptime reduced. Grenades are a very limited resource, that only have functionality in the âoh crapâ moments of the game. They can in no way replace the role of a primary weapon, if you tried to do a âblitz onlyâ run with any ordinance-carrying type career, youâd be rendered helpless in seconds.
But again, I think psyker should be an exception to this rule, their blitzâs should be more effective and more available than any others. But assail is too much, even within the psykerâs unique framework.
My main issues is thus:
This allows you to cover ALL bases in a way that is too far above the competition. I think we can all agree that if they changed the game to allow any career to bring a second ranged weapon, in lieu of a blitz ability, you would fundamentally break the game. A veteran with a powersword, plasma gun AND an autogun? You wouldnât even notice the lack of grenades, youâve got an even better alternative now, with much more ammunition and overall utility.
This is essentially the situation weâre in now, though not as severe, as we agree assail is only comparable to an unbuffed autogun. Bring a voidstrike or trauma staff with assail, and there is nothing you donât have an extremely effective answer for.
I do not see a problem at all, when a psyker with melee+staff+blitz has a tool to deal with basically everything.
You can take a veteran with ps+lasgun+krak grenades and you have an extremely effective answer for basically everything.
You can take an ogryn with just a melee weapon and you have an extremely effective answer for everything. Is that a problem?
Again this just gets down to subjective opinions of power levels. Iâve played all the classes a good deal now on the new patch, and theyâre all really strong. But I am, personally speaking, much more effective, as in I kill things faster than with any of my other builds, using assail + voidstrike/trauma and a mark 5 dueling sword. And the outlier, in my eyes, is assail. If I swapped it out with brain-burst or bio-lightning, Iâd say I was about on par with my other characters.
The difference in speed with which I can kill all targets using this build compared to my others, is what I consider to be a balance issue. Similar to pinning-fire veteran builds pre-update, I can eliminate far more than my share of all threats, from trash mobs to crushers, in any given level before the rest of the team gets a chance to participate. This is an issue in my eyes.
Not sure if it actually has the highest dps potential, but the psyker SHOULD have more dps potential than all the other classes.
Especially compared to the ogryn, who is basically immortal unless he gets disabled.
Because the psyker is the most fragile class.
Also, since you say that you run around with a voidstrike staff (which can 1 shot bulwarks through their shield, can 1 shot crushers and mutants, and apparently it can stunlock bosses), i am not sure if assail is actually what you would want to be complaining about.
I donât know why that should be the case? I donât mind that its psyker right now, I really like psyker, but should be? I accept that one class is always going to be ascendant in any given patch, but it never should be any specific one.
A quick aside - I want to stress that Iâm not here to ânerf the big bad psyker because Itâs ruining all my funâ. Iâve been playing almost nothing but psyker since the update, because it got the most interesting new mechanics (in my opinion), and Iâm absolutely loving it. But I feel like Iâm hurting other players enjoyment by playing it the way I want to. I donât want to stop playing with this build, so here I am, advocating for some modest tweaks that will both make it more interesting to play, and more fun to play alongside.
I really donât agree with that. Youâve got two talents right at the top of the tree that give you toughness regen whenever youâre generating peril and when youâre venting it. And you can take both without locking yourself out of anything. Really good IMOP. And dueling swords have fantastic mobility and dodge.
1000% Yes. The voidstrike is really broken right now, specifically with regards to carapace armor and penetrating bulwark shields (why can it do that!?) It can kill a crusher faster than brainburst, and thatâs without any specific blessings or perks. However I didnât want to start another conversation about it in the thread thatâs about assail. Itâs a whole other problem. But the patch has only been out 2 days, so I donât think Iâm being a meta chasing try-hard for using it yet.
However, Iâve also run trauma and surge a fair bit in this patch, and theyâre also quite good at dealing with the things assail canât (ogryn). They are slower at it then voidstrike, which we agree is very broken, and they have much lower range, but they are still above average options for killing ogryn compared to most other ranged weapons. Solid, but modest damage, combined with stun-lock/stagger. But I think we can agree neither of them are a problem.
The issue here is what assail brings to the table compared all other options. Using trauma/brainburst, youâre a really solid crowd killer and armor destroyer. The thing youâll rely on your team for in this build is killing large amounts of ranged mobs, but everything else youâre comfortable with. Swap out brainburst for assail, and now there is nothing you canât deal with alone and, crucially to the issue, quickly.
Any descent player can solo a run. But it takes a lot of time, a lot of kiting, a lot of tedious isolating of the threats youâre not well equipped for. But thatâs good, there should be areas of weakness in any build that you rely on your team to fill, if you want to move through a level at a descent pace. Youâll have hyper specialized builds that are really low time-to-kill against specific targets, and a gradient down to super generalized builds with medium time-to-kill against all targets. When a build has a low time-to-kill against all targets, thatâs when youâve got a problem.
WEll its good for trash unarmoured Enemies and specials. Some Elites too. Enemies that have low HP Pool and mostly no Armour. Exception is Maniac Berserker which needs 3-4 shots.
But you can kill anything faster with the Surge Staff & Voidstrike for sure!
Ohh yeah and theres is still Brainburst⌠Oneshot, done next, oneshot, done next!
With full BUffs i kill Crushers in 2-3 hits and the rest is 1-r 2 shots! With eitehr Void or Surge. So how can this be be Broken?
Its the same Argument as it was with Powersword. WOW you can kill 10 Trash Poxwalkers with one powered swing. LOL⌠I can kill 12 of them in swing with my Eviscerator.
STOP Yelling what some trashy YTubers say.
You yell OP because its easy to use, which is fine. Not everyone is a Good Player and that can help.
Dont see a problem here. The Peril you get is massiv you get only 3 shots for free with the rights skills.
ONly because Trash dies fast, doesnt make it OP!
ITS UTTER USELESS AGAINST:
*Bulwarks
*Crusher
*Mutant
*Maulers
*Bosses
*Ragers/ Berserkers to an extent its 3 or shots to kill these guys and you have only 10 Knifes. then your up to 50 or more Peril depending on Aimed shot or not, so no! its good
So whats left? Yes again, Trash Enemies. This Blitz is ment for Hordeclear! Yes, it looks too strong at first bu it clearly isnt. ALl the Important Enemies are well protected against it!
AND again, you can kill even more Trash and faster with a Purgatus Flame Staff, lol
Its not worth or useless against these Enemies. Its ment to be paired with f.ex. Surge staff. YOu kill the Heavies and then trash or vice versa. I dont see any problem here?!
Iâm honestly stunned that anyone is even trying to defend these things with a straight face. Just try to compare them to the other classes blitz skills, for example zealotsâ new throwing knife, and tell me with a straight face that these are remotely equal.
I agree, I saw ppl phew phew phew with it and keep getting hit by melee adds. But I canât really say anything cause I havenât tried it yet. However, if I were to nerf one thing, Iâd rather nerf that unlimited shock. Itâs like a surge staff with out peril cost. I had a game with a few psykers with that build and my frame rate couldnât keep up lol (RTX3080 btw).
Well, thatâs just a bug - Smite was never meant to have peril reduction, if the tool tip for Empowered Psionics is to be believed.
I donât think Assail needs that much change - a small adjustment to ammo count (say 10 â 8) or recharge. Itâs fun to watch the shards dance in a horde, but if youâre trying to deal with elites, the presence of horde or incorrect enemy density can screw you.
As it stands, you recharge as fast as you throw with RMB and recharge 1 shard per 4 throws on LMB (so you can get 12 throws if Warp Charges/Battle Meditation keep your peril in check). Preventing regen for a short time after throwing so you donât replenish while âmagdumpingâ or delay regen if you hit zero so you can throw them all but it may leave you vulnerable if you do (at which point, you swap weapons)
It takes around 4 assail charges to kill a single bomber/trapper/elite gunner.
Usually 2 to kill a sniper.
If zealot brings a combat knife as well, they can 2? shot crushers with their throwing knifes.
People complain about how OP assail supposedly is, yet they have no clue what the hell they are talking about.
If you have a vet on the team, or a surge staff user, good luck getting many elite/special kills with assail.
Unless your teammates do not see the enemy before it comes into 15m range, and then do not attack it, they can often easily kill it before assail can do anything to them.
Throwing headshots with 100% rending from combat blade.
Honestly it is completely fine imo.
Interactions like that, are what makes build crafting fun and interesting. It also comes at a cost, since you basically have to pick the bleed talent to use the knife, which means that you sometimes do not get a knife reset because an enemy will die to bleeds instead of melee dmg.
Also, zealot does not have any other blitz ability that deals damage to crushers (psyker has BB to 2-3 shot them, vet has krak grenade 1 shots, ogryn has⌠a grenade shaped tactical nuke).
I agree that assails come back too fast, I think the damage on them is fine. But they can be really toxic in pubs when all people are doing is throwing the assails constantly. Iâve had more demon hosts triggered since the patch update due to assail psykers than I have had trigger the entire time since the DHâs were released
Yesterday I had a regular Damn match as shouty squad leader Vet and got paired with the triple assail Psyker squad. Honestly a really funny run. About 2/3 of it was absurdly chill while I felt like I was basically a tourist taking in the lovely vistas. Then the other 1/3 of the match was me clutching and reviving because they all blew themselves up around the same time or once when a slug turned up and only maybe 1 of them seemed to have much idea how to handle it with other threats coming in.
Honestly it was a pretty fun round in its own way, and Iâm not trying to present regular Damn as any kind of proof of OPness or anything, but outside of Auric it does feel like 2 or more assail Psykers and a pretty bad team can just cruise through a lot of the map on normal Damn, and seeing mediocre players cruise through Damnation so comfortably is not something I feel like Iâve seen much before.
100% agree, its pretty braindead and strong enough that even a bad psyker player is gonna be basically killing everything by just spamming it. It doesnât really matter if it takes 4 casts to kill something if you can do it infinitely. Iâve also been seeing a lot of psykers exploding on damnation while running it, giving me the distinct impression that âOh you donât know how to manage your peril and probably donât actually know what youâre doingâ, but they still kill more than their share until the situation gets messy and they have to melee if they want to live.
