Project Ogryn Weapons

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
1

As some of you may be aware from my previous thread, a while back I created a mod, one Enginseer’s Workbench, that allows for customization and experimentation with weapons and how they behave in Darktide. I also main Ogryn, and Ogryn has a number of weapons that just… don’t feel very good to use.

A few weeks ago, these two facts collided and I decided that I wanted to do a deep dive on the less popular and less satisfying weapons in the Ogryn arsenal and see if I could get them to feel better. This thread is the result of those efforts.

Now, before we begin, I want to be clear that this isn’t really about weapon balance. That’s… not irrelevant, but I’m not concerning myself with significantly changing weapon power level, and I’ve tried to keep things in at least the same ballpark as they started. My concern for this project is how weapons feel to use and how to improve the vibe of the weapon, rather than the performance.

And with that, let’s get into it, starting with the Cleavers:

Krourk MkVI Cleaver (ogryn_combatblade_p1_m1)
The Heavy Cleaver is mostly pretty good, just needed to be tightened up and the single target combo of push into heavy attack I found to be a little awkward. So I added the single target combo as an option for the push attack. I believe it flows better that way and feels quite nice, but there’s a very valid argument that the cleave cleaver shouldn’t have easy access to a good single target combo, so I’m not 100% convinced it should be there. It’s just included because I like it.

Detailed changes:
L1
-reduced transition to second attack from 0.6 to 0.48

Push
-reduced blocking duration from 0.5 to 0.4
-reduced transition to special from 0.45 to 0.32

Push Combo (Heavy)
-reduced chain time for heavy from 0.5 to 0.3
-reduced transition out of push combo heavy from 0.6 to 0.46

H1
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.7 to 0.35
-reduced minimum charge time from 0.55 to 0.45

H2
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.725 to 0.35
-reduced minimum charge time from 0.5 to 0.45

(Potential Update)
Revamp push_follow_up to use action_right_light_pushfollow as the light attack and action_heavy_push_combo as the heavy attack
-add action_melee_start_pushfollow
-light_attack → action_right_light_pushfollow
-heavy_attack → action_heavy_push_combo, chain_time = 0.45
-in action_input_hierarchy, delve the tree to input=“push_folllow_up”
-remove input=“push_follow_up_release”
-add light_attack, heavy_attack, and attack_cancel, all with transition=“base”

Bull Butcher MkIII Cleaver (ogryn_combatblade_p1_m2)
The Butcher is fantastically powerful, but much of its moveset was hampered by awkward moments and microstutters, for lack of a better term, where you attack, finish the attack, and trigger the next one, but nothing happens for a significant amount of time before the second attack begins. So across the board, this weapon was given significantly more responsiveness, with a couple of attacks slowed down to compensate

Detailed changes:
L1
-reduced transition to second attack from 0.65 to 0.46
-increased transition to Special from 0.23 to 0.48

L2
-slowed swing by 10%
-reduced transition to block from 0.55 to 0.5
-reduced transition to third attack from 0.6 to 0.42

L3
-increased transition to L1 from 0.4 to 0.43

H1
-slowed swing by 5%
-reduced min charge time as first attack from 0.65 to 0.55 and from 0.55 to 0.4 following L2
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.8 to 0.6

H2
-reduced min charge time from 0.5 to 0.3
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.75 to 0.66

Special
-sped up punch by 5%
-movement curve gentled very slightly
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.6 to 0.55

Krourk MkIV Cleaver (ogryn_combatblade_p1_m3)
The push attack to next attack chain was a little slower than I’d like. No further notes; there’s a reason everyone loves this thing

Detailed changes:
Pushfollow
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.65 to 0.38

Brute-Brainer MkIII Latrine Shovel (ogryn_club_p1_m1)
The classic meme spoon is in a pretty good state, moveset-wise. It feels great and has useful combos into just about everything. It’s main issue is just a lack of damage, so I sought to address that. A series of gentle core stat increases in key places and a broad increase in finesse multipliers has brought it to around the right spot. With these changes, the MkIII shovel is a solid general purpose weapon that isn’t particularly great against anything, but also isn’t bad against anything either. The increased finesse plays into the moveset as well, rewarding headhunting in a very satisfying way.

Detailed Changes:
L1, L2, Pushfollow
-increased stagger duration modifier from 0.1,0.5 to 0.3,0.6
-increased finesse multiplier against the first enemy hit from 0.25 to 0.45
-increased finesse multiplier against the second enemy hit from 0.25 to 0.3

L3, H1 light followup
-increased finesse multiplier against the first enemy hit from 0.5 to 0.6
-increased carapace adm for the first enemy hit from 0.25 to 0.35
-increased damage for the first enemy hit from 150,300 to 170,370
-increased finesse boost against the first enemy hit for unyielding from 0.5 to 0.6
-increased finesse boost against the first enemy hit for carapace from 0.1 to 0.15
-increased finesse multiplier against all later enemies hit from 0.25 to 0.3
-increased carapace adbm against all later enemies hit from 0 to 0.25
-increased damage for the second enemy hit from 60,80 to 65,85
-increased damage for all later enemies hit from 20,30 to 25,40

H1
-increased finesse multiplier against the first enemy hit by 0.75
-increased damage against the first enemy hit from 190,380 to 210,410
-increased finesse multiplier against the second enemy hit from 0.25 to 0.45

H2
-increased finesse multiplier against the first enemy hit from 0.35 to 0.5
-increased finesse multiplier against all other enemies hit from 0.25 to 0.4
-increased damage against second target hit from 80,160 to 95,170
-increased damage against third target hit from 60,120 to 80,130

Special
-added ignores stagger resistance on weakspot hit
-raised hit zone priority of torso to match head
-reduced cleave from 4,9 to 0.001
-reduced chain time to next attack from 0.45 to 0.41
-reclassified as a heavy attack
-reduced finesse multiplier from 0.5 to 0.3

Brute-Brainer MkXIX Latrine Shovel (ogryn_club_p1_m2)
The folding shovel is in an interesting spot. It’s got most of the damage it needs, and the moveset flows reasonably well, but the special just does not do enough damage to justify how long it locks you down for. I thought of a few different ways to address this, and what I settled on was to make the special a toggle instead of a one time use. When you activate the special, it flips the shovel blade down and switches the moveset to using the overhead attacks, which can be chained into each other as often as you like, but in return you lose all access to sweeping attacks and crowd control until you deactivate the special.

Detailed Changes:
L1
-slowed swing by 10%
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.68 to 0.62

L1 and L2
-increased damage against the first target from 100,220 to 120, 240
-increased damage against the second target from 80,160 to 90,160

L3
-slowed swing by 10%

L3 and L4
-increased additional stagger from 0.1,0.5 to 0.3,0.6
-increased finesse multiplier against the first target from 0.25 to 0.45
-increased finesse multiplier against the second target from 0.25 to 0.3

H1
-increased finesse multiplier against the first target from 0.5 to 0.75
-increased damage against the first target from 190,380 to 210,410
-increased finesse multiplier against the second target from 0.25 to 0.45

Push
-Added special to chain out of push, with a transition time of 0.38

Pushfollow
-increased finesse multiplier against the first enemy hit from 0.5 to 0.6
-increased carapace adm for the first enemy hit from 0.25 to 0.35
-increased damage for the first enemy hit from 150,300 to 170,370
-increased finesse boost against the first enemy hit for unyielding from 0.5 to 0.6
-increased finesse boost against the first enemy hit for carapace from 0.1 to 0.15
-increased finesse multiplier against all later enemies hit from 0.25 to 0.3
-increased carapace adbm against all later enemies hit from 0 to 0.25
-increased damage for the second enemy hit from 60,80 to 65,85
-increased damage for all later enemies hit from 20,30 to 25,40

Special Toggle
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.62 to 0.42
-reclassified weapon special from WeaponSpecialShovels to WeaponSpecialActivateToggle and updated special config to match

L1 (Special Active)
-special active hit stop animations changed to hit_stop
-slowed swing by 20%
-increased transition to next attack from 0.8 to 1.2
-reduced delay to deactivate special from 1.1 to 0.5
-reduced cleave from 8.5,12.5 to 3,6
-reduced impact from 8,16 to 5,10

H1 (Special Active)
-special active hit stop animations changed to hit_stop
-reduced delay to deactivate special from 1.2 to 0.6
-reduced cleave from 8.5,12.5 to 3,6
-increased damage from 300,1100 to 600,1300
-increased finesse multiplier from 0.25 to 0.75
-reduced unyielding adm from 1.5 to 1.25

Brute-Brainer MkV Latrine Shovel (ogryn_club_p1_m3)
Pretty much exactly the same as the above. This just needed a little bit of love and letting the special be a toggle

Detailed Changes:
L1
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.65 to 0.55
-reduced transition to special toggle from 0.65 to 0.55

L1, Pushfollow
-increased stagger duration modifier from 0.1,0.5 to 0.3,0.6
-increased finesse multiplier against the first enemy hit from 0.25 to 0.45
-increased finesse multiplier against the second enemy hit from 0.25 to 0.3

L2
-accelerated swing by 10%

L4
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.79 to 0.54

L2, L3, L4
-increased finesse multiplier against the first enemy hit from 0.5 to 0.6
-increased carapace adm for the first enemy hit from 0.25 to 0.35
-increased damage for the first enemy hit from 150,300 to 170,370
-increased finesse boost against the first enemy hit for unyielding from 0.5 to 0.6
-increased finesse boost against the first enemy hit for carapace from 0.1 to 0.15
-increased finesse multiplier against all later enemies hit from 0.25 to 0.3
-increased carapace adbm against all later enemies hit from 0 to 0.25
-increased damage for the second enemy hit from 60,80 to 65,85
-increased damage for all later enemies hit from 20,30 to 25,40

H1, H2
-increased finesse multiplier against the first enemy hit from 0.35 to 0.5
-increased finesse multiplier against all other enemies hit from 0.25 to 0.4
-increased damage against second target hit from 80,160 to 95,170
-increased damage against third target hit from 60,120 to 80,130

Push
-Added special to chain out of push, with a transition time of 0.38

Special Toggle
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.62 to 0.42
-reclassified weapon special from WeaponSpecialShovels to WeaponSpecialActivateToggle and updated special config to match

L1 (Special Active)
-special active hit stop animations changed to hit_stop
-slowed swing by 20%
-increased transition to next attack from 0.8 to 1.2
-reduced delay to deactivate special from 1.1 to 0.5
-reduced cleave from 8.5,12.5 to 3,6
-reduced impact from 8,16 to 5,10

H1 (Special Active)
-special active hit stop animations changed to hit_stop
-reduced delay to deactivate special from 1.2 to 0.6
-reduced cleave from 8.5,12.5 to 3,6
-increased damage from 300,1100 to 600,1300
-increased finesse multiplier from 0.25 to 0.75
-reduced unyielding adm from 1.5 to 1.25

Here’s an example of these shovel changes in action:

“Brunt Special” MkI Bully Club (ogryn_club_p2_m1)
This weapon is in a good spot; it’s got the damage and control, and most of its attacks flow well. It’s one issue is the light combo feeling extremely sluggish and unresponsive. To that end, I replaced the attacks with snappier animations, slowed down to better fit the brutish theme of the club, and tightened the attack chain to remove the floaty and unwieldy sensation from the weapon.
Note: Animation shenanigans did produce a slight bit of artifacting when chaining L1 into L2, it’s minor and should be fairly easy to clean up with access to underlying animation files/mechanics, but I don’t have that as a modder.

Detailed Changes:
L1
-attack animation swapped from attack_swing_left_diagonal to combat blade’s attack_swing_heavy_left_diagonal
-slowed swing by 10%
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.65 to 0.48

L2
-attack animation swapped from attack_swing_right_diagonal to combat blade’s attack_swing_heavy_right
-slowed swing by 30%
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.65 to 0.45

“Brunt’s Pride” MkII Bully Club (ogryn_club_p2_m2)
The punch club’s big lack was a consistent single target combo, so I evolved the existing push into L4 to a proper push combo that flows into a single target loop. With these changes, the single target combo is now Push → Push Combo → Push Combo 2 → [H2 → PC2].

Detailed Changes:
Push
-now chains into a new Push Combo attack
-reduced transition to attack from 0.3 to 0.2

Push Combo
-new strikedown attack accessible immediately after a push
-vertical attack with high damage and impact but low cleave
-chains into new Push Combo 2 or H1

Push Combo 2
-new strikedown attack accessible immediately after Push Combo or H2
-less vertical attack with high damage and impact but low cleave
-chains into L2 or H2

H2
-now chains into new Push Combo 2 to close the loop

“Brunt’s Basher” MkIIIb Bully Club (ogryn_club_p2_m3)
No notes, a genuinely fantastic moveset with a couple more subtle elements that really make it shine.

Orox MkII & MkIII Battle Maul & Slab Shield (ogryn_powermaul_slabshield_p1_m1)
The slab is an immensely powerful defensive tool, but it’s always had a problem of, put bluntly, not having a moveset. Historically, the weapon when used correctly is almost entirely spamming heavy attacks, and more often than not simply throwing out the H1 and block canceling immediately to do it again asap. I sought to change that, so I tweaked the combos, overhauled the light attacks, even completely replacing one of them, and just generally improved the synergy and flow with the light attacks to make them much more desirable.

Detailed Changes:
L1
-increased bonus stagger duration from 0.1,0.5 to 0.1,0.75
-increased cleave from 5.5,10.5 to 8.5,12.5
-increased damage against the first target from 80,160 to 80,160
-reduced impact against the first target from 15,25 to 10,20
-increased damage against the second target from 25,50 to 70,120
-reduced impact against the second target from 13,20 to 8,16
-increased damage against the third target from 20,40 to 55,90
-reduced impact against the third target from 13,20 to 6,12
-increased damage against the fourth target from 15,30 to 30,60
-reduced impact against the fourth target from 11,17 to 4,10
-increased impact against all other targets from 3,10 to 4,10
-increased power level multiplier against all targets from 0.75,1.25 to 0.75,1.5

L2
-replaced horizontal sweep attack with punching the shield forward
-accelerated swing by 30%
-reduced transition to next attack from 0.75 to 0.7
-increased bonus stagger duration from 0.1,0.5 to 0.1,2.5
-reduced cleave from 5.5,10.5 to 1,2
-increased finesse multiplier from 0.25 to 1
-increased damage against the first target from 80,160 to 110,220
-reduced the impact against the first target from 15,25 to 10,20
-increased damage gainst the second target from 25,50 to 60,80
-reduced the impact against the second target from 13,20 to 8,13
-increased damage against all other targets to 20,40
-reduced impact against all other targets to 12

L3 and L4
-reduced cleave from 8.5,12.5 to 5.5,10.5
-increased damage against the first target from 80,150 to 95,190
-increased impact against the first target from 10,20 to 15,25
-reduced damage against the second target from 60,110 to 35,60
-increased impact against the second target from 8,16 to 13,20
-reduced damage against the third target from 40,90 to 25,40
-increased impact against the third target from 6,12 to 13,20
-increased damage against the fourth target from 25,60 to 15,30
-increased impact against the fourth target from 4,10 to 11,17
-increased damage against all other targets from 10,30 to 15,30
-reduced impact against all other targets from 4,10 to 3,10

Pushfollow
-next attack changed from L2/H2 to L1/H1

Here’s these changes in action:

Krourk MkV Twin-Linked Heavy Stubber (ogryn_heavystubber_p1_m1)
The Krouk is a strange gun, with wild recoil and spread that make it fundamentally challenging to make use of. I aimed to smooth those pain points and shifted the gun from its existing spray and pray bullet hose to a mid to close range burst fire machine. With these changes, accuracy is largely maintained for the first several shots of a burst before it starts really fighting you. When it does, you can still lay into the trigger, but it becomes significantly less effective the longer you hold the trigger down, incentivizing firing in brief bursts and pacing your shots.

Detailed Changes:
Hipfire
Recoil
-added a delay of 0.05 after firing before recoil decays at its idle rate
-reduced rise duration from 0.062 to 0.042
-smoothed recoil curve to reflect a low slope that spikes upward after a few shots
-increased idle decay rate from 0.35 to 1
-adjusted recoil bounce patterns to start small and grow with subsequent shots

Spread
-reduced maximum spread from 5 to 4
-increased delay after firing before spread decays at its idle rate from 0.025 to 0.05
-increased shooting decay rate from 0.5 to 0.8
-increased idle decay rate from 1.5 to 2
-reduced minimum spread from 2 to 1.5
-reduced delay before spread resets from 0.25 to 0.075

Braced
Spread
-reduced delay after firing before spread decays at its idle rate from 0.3 to 0.075
-increased idle decay rate from 1.75 to 2
-reduced the minimum spread from 1.75 to 1.5

Gorgonum MkIV Twin-Linked Heavy Stubber (ogryn_heavystubber_p1_m2)
This weapon is in a pretty good spot. It feels good to fire and hits about as hard as it should. It is a little too sluggish on the draw however, so I’ve tightened that up a little.

Detailed Changes:
-reduced transition after weapon swap to brace from 1.3 to 0.95
-reduced transition after weapon swap to firing from the hip from 1.4 to 1.1

Achlyss MkVII Twin-Linked Heavy Stubber (ogryn_heavystubber_p1_m3)
No notes, this thing is great. It’s a bit inaccurate at mid to long range, but that’s exactly what it should be, and it plays great to the bullet hose it’s always meant to be.

Foe-Rend MkII Ripper Gun (ogryn_rippergun_p1_m1)
The close-in ripper gun needed a bit more of a kick at close range and the hipfire to be more controllable to really feel good, and that’s what it got. It still bucks like a rodeo bull when you lay into the trigger, but pacing your bursts allows you to stay roughly on target and put hurt on the bad guys.

Detailed Changes:
-reduced total pellet count from 21 to 18
-increased minimum pellet count against carapace from 2 to 3
-increased minimum pellet count against all other types from 5 to 6
-increased minimum range from 6,15 to 6,16
-increased damage from 350,700 to 450,780
-increased cleave from 3 to 4.5
-reduced far damage adms from 0.25-0.3 to 0.2
-added decay grace of 0.1 to hipfire recoil
-increased hipfire idle recoil reset speed from 0.5,1 to 1,2

Foe-Rend MkV Ripper Gun (ogryn_rippergun_p1_m2)
The fast ripper gun was great in terms of damage, but after two bursts, the weapon is completely uncontrollable for multiple seconds, and it feels awful. To address this, I significantly increased the recoil recovery for hipfire, but also added a grace period after firing before the accelerated recovery can kick in. This means that mag dumping will still be wild and uncontrollable, but as long as you pace your bursts, you can keep the weapon on-target.

Detailed Changes:
-added decay grace of 0.2 to hipfire recoil
-increased hipfire idle recoil reset speed from 0.5,1 to 1.2,2.4

Alright, that was a lot of text to sift through, so for anyone who’s made it this far, I’ll confirm to you that if you want to try any of these changes out for yourself, you can just go grab the latest version of my mod from the link at the top of the page, and if you copy-paste the contents of custom_stat_block_multiple.lua into custom_stat_block.lua, you’ll have the whole set of changes applied the next time you boot up the game and can experiment with all of them in the Psykhanium or a SoloPlay instance.

In addition, as a little bonus treat, there’s another thing I’ve been working on that’s also in the latest update to the mod. I’ll give yall a little preview right here:

I’ve turned the Mk2 Bully Club into a brawling fist weapon that lets you get up close and personal with enemies; really rip and tear into them like you’ve got a bone to pick. If you wanna give it a shot, just copy-paste the contents of custom_stat_block_singular.lua into custom_stat_block.lua and equip the mk2 bully club.

Note: if you want bare fists like in the video, you’ll have to install Extended Weapon Customization and edit the file at extended_weapon_customization\scripts\mods\ewc\weapons\ogryn_club_p2_m1.lua. Change one of the replacement_path values to some nonsense and then in-game select the skin you changed; this will hide your weapon model from displaying and get you the bare handed look

2

While I do love giving underperformers some love, I have a concern, which is, if these weapons have their shortcomings removed, how are they unique from one another in any way? I understand that the point of the changes was to make them be on the same power level so no mark is better than another, but at the same time, because all underperformers were buffed, it feels like these changes made these weapons good at everything they weren’t.

So what does make them unique and different from one another now?

3

I want to come back and read this much more closely then I have time for now, but if Ogryn weapons are on the table, the powermaul being the worst weapon in the game needs to be mentioned.

It makes you walk slow, and it slows you even more when you power it on, and the power goes away too soon. Can’t charge it and wait, can’t charge it while walking, there’s like a speed bump when you hit the button where you slow to a crawl. Last time I used it I quit the match in eight minutes because I couldn’t stand the thing anymore. Mostly as Ogryn I take a knife just to be able to move.

Now, I note that this mod doesn’t work in real play, which I suppose is understandable since it’s performance altering mod… but even so, if you could make a power maul that doesn’t suck just to show it around, that might get some movement on it.

Oh, I should mention I haven’t used the powermaul in a very long time, since my experience with it was so very, very bad… so if it’s been fixed in the time I was away, I might be talking about an older game build. IF so let me know.

I’d also love to see the shield with grenade gauntlet, like in the table top models. Wish we could assign a shield separately from other weapons, and use the power maul button on the shield and maul combination. .. but in a way that’s good. Does your mod allow for something that extreme?

If those were made as videos, even if it’s just in solo games, it might get some momentum to fixing these things.

Oh, and lastly, there IS a mod to increase rag dolls, and I always felt like Ogryn should ragdoll enemies much harder then he does, though my experiments with that mod have been very limited.

4

So this is a weird question. Are you trying to ask what differentiates a shovel that can be toggled into an anti-armor mode and a shield + mace?

For starters, power level hasn’t really moved substantially; some weapons have changed a little in terms of overall power (specifically folding shovels and ripper guns got a little better, albeit only in a specific context for the rippers) while the rest haven’t moved meaningfully at all.

What changed wasn’t the power level, but the general play experience of the weapon and how it feels to use it. For example, the mk3 cleaver is much more responsive to user input, but it’s also slower. The end result is the dps being about the same, but it doesn’t feel like a struggle to control the knife.

The weapon identities are all still there, and I tried to lean into them where I could (e.g., the mk6 cleaver still leans heavily into heavy attack spam for optimal movesets and is mostly about sweeps rather than strikedowns), but I went through and tried to address the common pain points people bring up about ogryn weapons. Mostly around things feeling unresponsive and outlandishly hard to control, but also poor or uninteresting movesets and the like.

In terms of power level, Power Maul is arguably Ogryn’s best weapon, and in the top 10 or so best melee weapons in the game. It’s received several passes that overhauled the moveset and made the special substantially more powerful. It doesn’t need any help at all.

Even setting aside power level, the moveset feels pretty good to use.

5

Ermagerd! They actually did improve it a bit. Looks like it has a rate limit on the charge now… and it’s still a speed bump when you charge it (which is really, so irritating…) but you aren’t as generally slow as before.

Still doesn’t seem as good as a club, but it’s not quite as awful as it used to be.

The only other ‘activatable’ Ogryn melee weapon is the shovel, and you can flip it’s mode without missing a stride, whereas with the power maul, you spend a few seconds in tar when you hit the button. Absolutely infuriating when you’re trying to close on an enemy and suddenly, for no reason, your feet slow down because you pushed a button. Though that does seem… reduced. (Eliminated would be better, but still..)

6

Great post and great suggestions.

MK2 Bully Club’s slap into fist into heavy combo should deal more damage and stagger. I find it underwhelming it often struggles to kill enemies in one combo while simply light attack/heavy attack spam is way more effective. Or they should do something else with that fist attack, like making it a part of a different, that has 4 or 5 attacks, but deals tremendous damage at the end with a similar punch, basically rewarding the player for consistently reaching the end of combo.

Knives Mk3 and MK6 need ovehauls, since they are both a downgrade of mk4 in my opinion.

The idea of making shovels remain foldable is great. I used to play MK5 shovel all the time when it could oneshot Crushers with its special, before the elite’s changes. If oneshots are off the table, then perhaps they can rework mk5 moveset so that push attack or next attack deals decent single target damage, since this mark already has great horde clear on horizontal heavy swipes across the screen. Maybe push attack pattern should be swapped between mk5 and mk19. I don’t like when they make one mark only for single target and the other solely for horde clear.

The best way to play shovel mk19 right now is to spam heavy attack into weakspot and light attacks for horde clear. It just feels weird that the special is mostly single target and takes nearly 5 seconds to charge to full Thrust stacks, but has just “slightly” more damage than heavy attack loop. It feels like the damage is nearly identical, but one type of attack keeps regaining your toughness and the other disables you for 5 seconds, and you can also whiff it if somebody kills the target, pushes it with abilities or if you hit Crusher’s shoulder for even lower damage than mere heavy attack spam.

Since we’re discussing Ogryn buffs here I would also like to request a buff to “Concentrate” talent that reduces spread and gun kick. When I tested it in the past with multiple weapons I found that you don’t need it even for Heavy Stubbers which have a big gun kick on repeated shots. There’s really no realistic reason to use that talent, ever, you can recoil control every single weapon to similar results while saving that one talent point you would have used for it.

If “Steady Grip” is a considerable buff to all Ogryn bullet weapons and compliments not just Gunlugger, but even melee playstyles where people tend to snipe specials as Ogryn more so than other players, then “Concentrate” is not even 30% as good, and you’re better off taking any of the 15% damage buffs for both ranged or melee, or any of the sustain/defensive talents.

7

ogryn fist weapon when…

cool stuff. the folding shovel really needs a redesign for sure and i like the idea of it just staying folded the most. it would be cool if it was like a monster hunter switch axe that swaps back and forth based on which attack in the combo is used. like imagine h2 always flips it to the other state. but maybe that’s overcomplicating it

8

I was talking about the difference between the marks of each weapon and how evening out the stats on every mark could possibly make every single version feel the same.

But something that wasn’t said is that all of it is just my first impression from seeing stats on the screen. I have no idea how much these changes would actually impact the "uniqueness of each mark in-game and whether it would turn every weapon into a jack-of-all-trades.

9

the melee variants don’t really justify so much mark balance gatekeeping, I don’t even think the ranged ones do (unless someone wants to try to argue for the infantry autoguns that aren’t Vraks or the twin stubbers that aren’t Achlys). I mean I’m all ears for why one should be better than the others but I’d rather they take a pickaxe-style stab at it or make it less polarizing. stuff like power sword 6 is a mistake of the weapon variant system, an illusion of choice.

10

Okay yeah, that’s definitely not what’s going on here. The movesets are all still very unique, with their own strengths and weaknesses, and a different play experience comes with each one. Your concern isn’t an unwarranted one, and it’s something I tried to pay attention to with the changes I ended up making, but the identity of any given weapon mark didn’t really change significantly. Just some of the pain points got sanded down in ways that, IMO, make them a little more interesting.

11

R (6)
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12

a crime that it hasn’t been done yet. perfect opportunity for fast dual wielding ogryn weapon and they wouldnt even need to make new models for it

13

Its actually demonstrably better. Also improved move set.

Absolute kino

14

Mk3 is actually pretty good. It’s PA counts as a heavy (unlike the other marks) and deals more carapace damage than heavy strikedowns even without a weakspot. You take the Unstoppable Force blessing and the Brutish Strength talent then you just PA->H2 spam to cleave your way thru armor balls whereas the Mk4 would have to DPS down the heavier stuff individually.

15

I would love to have the foldable weapon toggle on vet shovels…

16

I agree with Mk6 it’s just wierd but bull butcher 3 is my favorite ogryn weapon so I don’t want it overhauled I love everything about it, I’m fine with number tweaks though.

17

I would just like the knife to actually be useful. Not even best in slot for hordes. Just not worse than a toughness zealot with a tac axe at its only purpose.