I actually tried keystones on a sniper vet build and it was horrific. I got far better mileage out of ignoring them entirely, which is not something you want to have happening when one of your paths is supposed to be about accurate sniping!
Speaking of, that path is derp personified because it works best off something like the recon lasgun - a full-auto weapon. Actual sniping weapons can’t build stacks quickly.
give the branx a try, until the crusher is buffed by something a fully charged vertical one-shots em reliably
I would like to see those two “toughness regen on heavy” set of nodes (Smash Em and The Best Defence) condensed in to one and other nodes for alternative ways to stay alive added beside them. Im not sure what they would look like.
Maybe a node specific to toughness/health dmg reduction vs ranged weapons.
I use the Confident Strike blessing to regen on lights, maybe that could be added in a different path so you can choose to regen on heavies or lights more effectively.
Regarding the OP, I think the vet tree is a bit messy and thats why it needs a rework.
Yeah, we can make it a keystone and call it No Pain Experienced or something…oh wait.
Just keep them as is but still work on lights at 5% ('member they were 25% ?), it seems criminal to spend a blessing slot just to make cleavers work post #13 
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no 
thats kinda my point
Yeah new nodes is what he needs the most. Right now I’m pathing through 30 nodes and care about like 5 of them. There’s lots of concepts that would suit Ogryn and give him the means to play the game in a more interesting way. For example, what if he had a node that applied suppression to shooters/gunners he sprints at? Maybe on a cooldown, maybe with some other trigger than sprinting at them, but playing into the suppression stuff would definitely be thematic (shooters getting scared of an approaching Ogryn makes sense) and effective. Yet it’s basically not used outside of the aura.
We don’t take them cause they are bad and there are better options. But even without, I don’t want to deal with these keystones and their specific triggers.
I like this 
No, they aren’t bad compared to other keystones and for their relevant builds, as I outlined. Wep specialist in particular has got to be the single strongest, most build enabling keystone in the game. This keystone gives vets guaranteed crits, ranged attack speed, melee attack speed, dodge speed and dodge distance at 1 point investment. All of these (except for maybe ranged attack speed) are massively impactful stats, and you can keep 100% uptime on them except for the crit. At 2 points it gives vets a unique auto-reload mechanic that makes some weapons pretty busted strong combined with the guaranteed crit. Some more point investment and you can get a good toughness talent.
The last part is true though, the blue talents are so strong and so conveniently placed that it’s appealing to just pick all of those instead then forget about buildcrafting. If you compare some of those blue talents vet has powerful picks that are way above and beyond what other classes can get per talent point.
I think Vets have the best keystones in the game period. Only psyker ones and martyrdom come close to them. I mean listen dude, marksmans focus is defacto “75-115% ranged finesse power if you keep headshotting” which is some of the most powerful tuning of any keystone, on a class that has good accurate ranged weapons and a high crit chance and weakspot damage on them. Their issue isn’t bad keystones, it’s just how the tree is arranged outside of them.
that they keep nurturing and cultivating the skill trees seems to be a good idea, with respect to feedback, metrics (data) etc they should evolve
With regards to Vet Keystones, they can be very powerful, but they feel conceptually awkward and often very different from most other classes keystones, and that’s probably because they were scraped together at the last minute after ditching FS’s initial concept.
What do I mean by that? They feel like the type of thing you’d design for a tabletop RPG, not so much a high intensity shooter. Relative to the keystones for other classes, the Veteran keystones require more fiddly actions. Blazing Piety, Warp Siphon, Lucky Bullet, FNP, Martyrdom, and Heavy Hitter all essentially accumulate or proc off stuff things that generally just naturally flow around you, often without needing any direct action or input on the players part. Marksman’s Focus rewards specifically only headshots and puts a movement restriction in on its use, ironically ending up being more useful for automatic weapons burst-fire weapons that can rapidly stack hits rather than carefully aimed precise shots. Weapons Specialist wants you mechanistically swapping weapons at odds times to trigger effects and often incentivizes hold a weapon you might otherwise want to swap from so you don’t trigger and waste a buff. Additionally, for a skill titled “Weapon Specialist”, it feels odd wanting you to constantly be switching weapons rather than concentrating on one.
As a final issue, more than any other class, the Keystoneless builds are far more common and viable on Vet than with any other class broadly speaking.
So while I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the Vet keystones in terms of raw power, I don’t think they’re conceptually the best designed and implemented ideas the game has seen.
None of them needs a rework, but quite a few could do with buffs. Mostly the keystones in some cases.
Eh…waggles hand
Vet needs a complete rework of his keystones at least - no more stack nonsense, it’s annoying and fiddly. The ‘do x when there’s no enemies in range’ nodes need to be replaced with something that actually works past malice.
Ogryn needs straightforward buffs and at least one node (Crunch) needs to be replaced entirely.
Zealot is…pretty workable overall, tbh.
Psyker probably needs its tree swapped a little since some of the new nodes are in VERY awkward places and empowered psionics probably needs a look at it but it’s otherwise fine.
Zealot needs some changes way more than vet. The first 20-25 points are pretty much set in stone with few variety.
Yeah I expected the poll to go Ogryn → Zealot → Vet → Psyker. Surprised me
I’m pretty convinced good or overtuned weapon balancing plays a huge role in that.
Zealot tree makes me grumble to look at, but their weapons work so off meta isn’t a massive game throwing thing.
Psyker is awesome but also is the un-proud owner of Wildfire, Unlucky for Some, and Empyrical Resolve… Penetration of the Soul doesn’t even seem to work and I’m actually afraid of the day it gets fixed; I don’t feel like soulblaze needs any buffs at all.
It just kind of puts into perspective how much about Ogryn didn’t bother me as long as his weapons felt good to use. Now they don’t and we’re here with his talent tree under everyone’s magnifying glass.