“Chain Reaction” talent of Unchained Sienna’s, is it under-powered? Or enough? Or over-powered?
- Under-powered
- Enough
- Over-powered
0 voters
It’s good for CC spam.
Recommended use: Deeds/difficult Weekly Events.
So, it seems like “under-powered” is the usual opinion.
How could it be better, without being over-powered?
My suggestion is:
- The enemy that hits by you has a ?% of a chance to explode on death.
- Every critical hit has a ?% of a chance to make a explosion. ※Both melee and ranged
- Every critical hit has a ?% of a chance to make a explosion. ※Only on melee
- Every critical hit has a ?% of a chance to make a explosion. ※Only on ranged
0 voters
Ok so what are the issues with Chain reaction talent?
Lets try and type them out.
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Low proc rate
- This might be caused due to it only proccing on burning enemies that die. Not sure if it only procs if they die by Dots or also while being killed by melee while burning.
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Dot’s don’t last long enough to kill an enemy with it, unless spamming ranged.
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Low amount of stagger
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no damage (or very very little)
This is mostly the biggest complaints people have with this talent. I’m sure more knowledgable unchained mains have made more in depth threads already about this talent, so checking them out might be better.
Now that we know the above we should try and look for a solution. What can we improve of this talent, so that it gets better and used more or has a ‘niche’ or a place. You might say it has a CC niche, but its cc is so low and its uptime is so low, its not really worth it to take.
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We can improve its CC niche and improve its stagger and make it procable more reliably in melee combat (which is unchained’s primary style, supposedly atleast). We can do that by making dot’s last longer and add a bit more stagger, it doesnt have to stagger a cw either. Making the radius bigger might also work. So making dots last longer might make a playstyle where you ignite and melee work better, will also synergise more on flame weapons.
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We can also improve (or add) damage to it, this way you lose less dps by choosing this talent (example losing attack speed). I don’t think its needed though, i think we can keep its CC niche but just make it a bit better.
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Changing how it works and procs can also work. Maybe add something unique that changes how melee weapons operate. Super quick example, that probably won’t work but just to make an example: “melee attacks their initial damage is transfered to dots”, this way it can proc more reliably and you can just attack and kill enemies and not worry about igniting them first or using a flame weapon, just an idea.
But yes, trying to find something that fixes the biggest issues of the players should be enough. This doesn’t mean we should fix all of them, we can still make it just better at CC, and not add damage, etc.
Maybe we are also wrong and maybe this is a talent that helps when ranging with unchained.
(i might of missed some issues players have with this talent, just quickly writing this up)
Edit: Yes, this talent is nice and works on high density gamemodes. You atleast notice it there. but in a normal game you get maybe a couple procs per horde, if even. Unless spamming ranged but who needs stagger when horde dies.
3 Likes
I like the idea that an enemy that hits you has the chance to explode, as though Unchained Sienna is so volatile merely touching her is dangerous.
Maybe have a scaling percentage chance based on the damage the enemy does, with a low chance for slave rats to explode but a high chance for a downward cleave to result in a huge explosion.
I would also like to see bigger stagger with bigger enemies. A SV exploding should be more powerful than a slave rat.
He meant ‘enemies you hit have a chance to explode on death’.
Also the idea of giving differen’t amounts of stagger depending on the enemy is great.
3 Likes
What about also making “Chain Reaction” a “Chain Reaction” and not just “This particular enemy go boom.” How about “An exploding enemy has a chance to set off a chain reaction to all other burning enemies.”
2 Likes
I like this idea.
1 Like
Yes.
A solution could also be to make it do damage. So for example, when an enemy explodes, it deals his max amount of hp in damage around him.
This way if you explode a skaven rat it can actually chain react and kill multiple skaven rats with 1 explosion. ofcourse cap it to a certain amount of enemies or make it go unlimited but low proc chance 
.
3 Likes
I did some testing in modded during the last beta and from memory it does indeed only proc if an enemy dies to the dot itself. Also the proc rate seemed much lower than stated in the beta patch notes even considering the above point.
Personally I would have it work more how it’s implied by the name (chain reaction). Let it proc if an enemy dies while burning, regardless of whether the dot itself is what kills them. Then I would have it add a very weak dot to its effect, the dot would be less about adding damage and more about allowing it to cause as actual chain reaction. Proc rate would probably have to be reduced to accommodate these changes without making it potentially too strong.
4 Likes
Thank you for testing.
So your idea would be that once one enemy dies to a chain reaction proc, that explosion would give a dot effect but very little damage but have the enemy burn forever? Which would make it easier to proc follow up chain reactions?
If that’s correct, i think that might be good idea. Basically have a constant dot effect on them but have it deal no damage. Would also allow playstyle such as; beam shotgunning untill proc, get high Overcharge meanwhile, start meleeing, get more procs. Combine that with the idea someone here had with adding higher stagger depending on the enemy you killed and it already starts to look like a decent 'ish talent.
Also if you could proc chain reaction with just killing a burning enemy, then they could also make it work for your team, that they can proc chain reaction on a burning enemy. Making it a much bigger support talent and have more impact.
I made an edit xs
4 Likes
Pretty much though I didn’t mean an indefinite dot. Maybe like 4-5 seconds. That should be plenty for people to capitalise on.
3 Likes
The way Chain Reaction works is if Unchained deals the killing blow to a burning enemy they have a chance to explode. It doesn’t matter who or what ignited the enemy, as long as Unchained deals the killing blow to a still-ignited enemy.
These are probably the two biggest ones. The chance to proc was actually made pretty high. 40%. But it doesn’t really matter because the talent itself is so underwhelming. Patch 3.1:
Searing grasp was changed into:
and Flame Wave into:
The above two changes were likely made in an effort to make Enfeebling Flames (and lesser extent, Chain Reaction) easier to proc, but “Outburst” is still terrible in general. Probably wouldn’t be as bad if she had a shield weapon.
If Chain Reaction did damage, ignited enemies at all (currently does not) for a meaningful duration, had meaningful stagger, or did much of anything really, then it’d be worth something. Some thoughts:
- Give it damage on explosion.
- Have it apply a lengthy burn (E.G. 5 seconds).
- Apply stacks of stagger to enemies for a duration longer than their animation (E.G. 5 seconds).
- Lower their mass.
- Slow enemies down.
And remember that the talent itself doesn’t necessarily need to remain in the game as is. It could be reworked entirely into something else.
4 Likes
I think the biggest issue and what i think most people agree on, is that its way to proc has to be changed.
Either make it proc on melee kills while an enemy is burning.
Or increase proc chance but keep it how it’s currently, only proccable if they died by dots.
1 Like
Ah ok my memory is incorrect there then. I am almost positive that in reality the probably is less than 40% though. When testing it felt more like 10-20% Would definitely help if the explosions themselves caused a dot. That may be enough on its own to make it worthwhile.
Also Outburst is pretty alright on weapons that don’t have an in built dot like the mace. Allows for solid use of enfeebling flames and the extra push angle is honestly pretty nice.
Does it already work on killing blow? I’m confused. Does it have to die by dot or can unchained proc it by killing an enemy on fire?
Also slowing enemies down is nice.
Also imagine chain reaction being proccable by teammates, unchained uses wildfire, everyone Starts meleeing and it gives stagger. (Or keep low stagger give slow on chain reacted enemies instead).
2 Likes
Perhaps it’s the exact opposite of what I remember and it’s the burn dot itself killing things that doesn’t proc chain reaction. That would explain why the proc rate seemed very low to me in testing. Perhaps a number of enemies were dying to the dot and that prevented it being triggered.
Agreed that allies being able to trigger it on burning enemies would cement the talent as a very nice support talent.
Anybody know how strong the stagger actually is? Does it stagger anything above normal horde units I wonder? If not that’s a little unhelpful, should probably at least be able to stagger SV, obviously staggering CWs would probably be a bit much.
1 Like
I vote to remove the talent for something else.
I was pretty disappointed when there wasn’t some amazing huge visual of a rat just exploding into pieces.
2 Likes
You don’t think it’s a cool enough idea to warrant trying to make the talent work? I don’t think it’s more than a few tweaks off being very useable, and it’s a neat fire dot interaction that only UC has. I only worry that it might be tough finding a middle ground between it being borderline useless and bonkers strong. I’d rather try a tweaked iteration of it before giving up on it though.
3 Likes
I think if we remove it fatshark has to find an entire new talent, which is way more work or more difficult to find something cool.
I think the concept is good, just needs some tweaks.
2 Likes