Yeah it’s crazy that literally a few value changes to rewards/stats would make everything so much better.
The intern could do it. But nope. Best design a whole system that is probably best kept for DT2 at this stage.
It would at least be a nice interim change.
If they significantly boosted materials I bet (oh the irony) that more and more players would play more and more. We’d be allowed to play with hadrons toolkit instead of avoiding it for fear of losing all our precious materials.
Okay that looks cool. I edited the original post to incorporate this into the poll. Thank you very much for your help with this. Hopefully it’s better this way. Apologizes for my first poll, like I said, I’m not good at polls or creating threads.
I think the platonic ideal is that it takes ~95 hours to max out a weapon family, progress resets every 2 weeks and DT rebrands as an extraction shooter
to be frank I hated doing the level 1-30 grind and utterly despise the item grind on top of it…anything that gets away from grind is good to me. I’m not opposed to progression systems in games (I actually love runescape lmao) but tide game “progression” has only ever felt like a chore I have to do before getting into the content that I actually wanna play
Me either. I mean. I play RPGs and tabletop DnD. Progression based systems can be a great way to get you attached to a character and be invested in their development throughout a campaign. I just don’t like Fatshark’s progression as well as their grind mechanics, all it does is waste my time before I get to the enjoyable part of the game which is slaying Nurgle worshipers; 'tide games don’t need these systems since the gameplay is very good, so good in fact that people spend thousands of hours just from the gameplay.
Not sure I quite align with any of the new poll options, since “no cost” is a bit of a trap-feeling addition to the “no grind” option. But with that said, I’m going to vote for no grind, with the caveats mentioned previously.
Your boy is too stupid for polls, LOL. I’m sorry brah. Thank you though for still voting.
How is that?
If something comes at a cost, you have to grind in order to obtain what ever ressource it costs.
The only way to have no grind at all, is to get access to everything for free.
If you grind up my weapons for me, I’ll teach you the way of the poll. 
Lol I think I read this sentence a lot differently to how it was intended 
Pictures of lasguns and twerking in my head 
maybe for Swaggers sick new rap album.
I think she wanted me to farm her weapons up which sounds really freaking awful, haha.
Because:
…I’m not saying that. And I never have. And I’m wary of loading ammunition for people who want to argue for stacking grinds onto things that I’ve already ‘earned’.
I want the option to earn progression without effectively pre-allocating things by digging out the right RNG-provided baseline and bar specifications, then dragging the raw item through missions, which exposes me to the total waste of my time should it turn out to be abysmal even after upgrades.
I want a system that isn’t “grindy” but I don’t resent the requirement for progression, but done in a way that still manages to respect my time and allow me to play in the manner I choose with gear that I choose on maps that I choose and with whomsoever I choose. Furthermore, I want to know that the time I’ve already spent, and gear I’ve already burned time to acquire, is 100% still going to be there. At level. With my Blessings and Perks. Intact.
Still, though, I’m not demanding that every one I haven’t used simply appear by magic. Though I don’t want, and will never want, an explicit grind per item, as I’ve explained elsewhere.
For instance, if the system ‘unlocks’ traits without any cost, but still requires materials to make an adjustment - there’s a cost. The materials are earned into a global pool, by playing the game, and if I tinker a lot then it’ll cost a regular influx of materials to make my changes. I don’t think that’s wholly unreasonable, but it’s also not framed as a grind because it’s not specifically directed, it’s simply a cost that can be largely covered, at not-extreme values at least, through ordinary play.
One can absolutely want no grind, but still be prepared to accommodate some form of limitations on modification to gear. It’s all in the details, and no extreme that’s been laid out quite satisfies me.
(Sorry, I think I went on a bit here. Free Ice Cream to anyone that actually read all that blather.)
Curses! You spotted my dastardly plan! Now my only chance is that stupid Urban-Funk-Jazz-Fusion album collab with Swagger. Kark.
The new poll is… probably more confusing. Editing it also means throwing out all previous votes, and people are unlikely to now scroll to the top to see that their vote is no longer counted. Meaning if you wanted to do a new poll, you would have needed a new thread. This thread is not going to get those voters back.
You did not. But i did.
You said that “no cost” seems like a trap, added to the “no grind option”.
I simply pointed out, that the only way to have no grind, is to also have no cost.
Nothing mentioned in the new poll options is suggesting that you should grind again for something that you already earned.
It is specifically stated that all options apply “after reaching lvl 30 on your character”, meaning “after reaching lvl 30 on your character as a new player”.
That is a grind.
Grinding is a term used in video game culture, referring to the act of repeating an action or set of actions, including non-repetitive tasks to achieve a desired result at a level of certain difficulty, typically for an extended period of time, such as earning experience points, in-game loot and currency or to improve a character’s stats
I disagree, because the new options are much more specific and leave far less room for interpretation.
Please elaborate.
I read the whole thing and I agree with you. It’s just, man, I don’t want any grind. If there’s going to be any such thing then it needs to be part of the overall character progression system - similiar to how in Warframe you have account wide progression, Mastery, that affects everything else.
If you remember, this was the same developer that thought it was a great idea to silo resources for each character which translated to you needing to regrind for new characters. It took a lot, and I mean a lot, of pullin’ and tuggin’ until they changed that. I have no faith in them doing right with all these different auxiliary systems.
I stated the differences as I see them. Your Wikipedia definition even matches what I said, and you’re still missing the complexity of how people interact with the mechanics that I, personally, see as fundamental to what we’re polling about.
Well, yeah. I’ve been up all night so I might not be at my most concise, but something closest to a global progression that simply -happens- as you play, in whatever way and with whatever gear you choose, that then lets us tinker about with gear a good amount without being absolutely unlimited was more or less what I was getting at.
(You also get ice cream)
Yes. That is the point.
You explained something and said that this would not be a grind.
I said that it is a grind and gave you the wikipedia definition.
Now you agree that the definition matches what you said.
So you agree that you described a grind, but at the same time still claim that you are not describing a grind?
Not really.
But if you think so, feel free to elaborate.
Yeah I feel that. Ever since the itemization blog dropped I’ve been glued to the forums. Even when I was at the gym doing my workouts I was still glued to my phone inbetween taking breathers from my sets.
I really appreciate your patience with me though. I constantly misread your stuff and responded incorrectly sometimes, even worse, I sometimes repeat what you said.
I’m going to be cautiously optimistic about it, but there is a thin line where as most of the information given in the devpost lacked the more detailed information, in true Fatshark spirit, and the new system is just another way to Fatshark to implement the grind they deem required for the game versus what players are willing to stomach.
The poll has changed? Oh I missed that.
My stance remains the same. Let us have our blessings and we can grind for weapon specific cosmetics. Win-win 
Edit: yeah I’m confused over the new options. The previous options were vague enough to allow for a general stance.