That’s a good point and arguably the crux of the problem though I do wonder if that goes for all vets or the ones that focus on auto/recon guns
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i would actually want to see some nerfs to vet, like voice of command removal, rending talents removed, grenades generation nerfed
and all this just to show everybody how worthless is become of veteran if you remove those crutches off him
not survivalist obviously, thats like beating a dead horse, it would be a meme to nerf it again
I agree with that entirely but I think that removing the OP crutches is the important step in highlighting that he needs help. It would be even better if they did both at once but to be honest I don’t think Fatshark would ever do either. The shout crutch or uncanny+shredder crutches are probably never going away
Survivalist at this point is w/e for the same reason they’d first have to address all the OP stuff like guns that have infinite ammo to begin with. Plasma used to not be this stupid, shocktrooper used to not exist, etc.
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Imo this is the biggest thing for me. Right now you can easily destroy an Auric with a ranged focus build without Survivalist and never need to feel worried about ammo. It’s overkill and not needed atm, and I don’t think a nerf would help things that much. At least unless we ever get everything else tuned down.
(I play Vet in Havoc so I’m biased)
Still what I think is more important is moving Catch a breath to be with the rest of the Toughness regeneration talents instead of being on the left side.
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Yeah, was going to say as I read through this ‘Murderered’ thread (hah), making it ranged focused kills is actively just killing the aura. The entire point of the aura is to feed ammo into the veteran so he can use Executioners Stance without being a liability to his team, he just happened to have it on his aura because Keystones weren’t a thing (like Ogryn’s lucky bullet) when the concept was introduced.
And now game modes like Havoc (which is what Antilus is pretty much entirely referring too) basically make it required that it stay an aura, unless they revert/finally drastically lessen the amount of ammo stingyness higher Havoc gives. I think dropping it by 50% would have been enough, but starting it there and dropping it to like 90% reduction is just actively laughably bad, and results in what has been described in here where the Veteran literally is the only one that picks up ammo, because he’s the one that stops being a class if he runs out.
As such, I’d say it’s in a fine enough spot, honestly I’m ok dropping it to 3 second intervals, just enough time that a full crowd won’t give you a mag but pot shotting enemies in a measured way can be mostly refunded. That, or completely revert it, but bake it into one of the Keystones, so that it’s the veteran that basically becomes ammo savy and is able to pick up ammo that he can use off the ground (the whole fantasy since there’s no enemy ammo drops), and the rest of his team, less refined in the gun game, has to pick up proper pouches and mags that happen to be lying around.
The point of the Veteran is the be the gun class, he is a VETERAN of using guns, while otherwise thriving on the battle field like the rest when he has to in melee (as that’s likely what kept him alive). Removing that/nerfing it entirely because it makes other classes not need ammo pick ups I feel isn’t really what should be done, just move it into it’s own node so the veteran can be happy playing as a veteran while the others can do what they are good at.
I’d be much less mad at ‘spammy’ veterans if I knew they where as little a tax on the team as Lucky Bullet Ogryns are now, but I also realize that ‘having two’ probably isn’t the play from a balance perspective. So a like, 3 second cool down Survivalist that exists independent of aura (while the rest of his aura’s get a little bump/he gets some aura that’s like ‘share X percent of all ammo picked up within coherency’) I think would be just perfect. Heck at that point one could make it ‘melee only’ with no cooldown as a sort of flavor win that’s like ‘you beat the guy up and quickly grabbed a few bullets that flew off of him’.
Here’s the thing about survivalist balance. Firstly nobody cares about Havoc so how powerful it is there is completely irrelevant to the vast majority of the player base.
Second, the game currently haphazardly simulates difficulty be spamming the enemies that proc Survivalist to increasingly ridiculous degrees. Since Survivalist being strong hinges on this, and elite spam is stupid, I’d really much rather see the elite spam and general approach to difficulty addressed before touching survivalist. Otherwise you risk needing to double handle it and FS is ESPECIALLY terrible at coming back to address things they botched the first time.
Before somebody calls that a pipe dream I’d remind you all that at the pace FS moves almost every suggestion you make here is a pipe dream, so may as well have some standards.
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It mainly goes for the Vets that refuse to use melee, there’s a good amount of seasoned Vets who know Vet can actually be a melee monster with a hybrid build, no need to commit to Weapon Specialist.
The Talents Precision Strikes, Superiority Complex and Desperado are all easily accessible from VoC, Infiltrate and Exe Stance. Those three Talents alone change the game for Vet in melee and the first two apply to ranged weapons too. Then Iron will dramatically improves Vet survivability.
Anyway, bit of a rant but it seems a lot of players in Damnation sleep on Vet’s melee capabilities and the last thing I want is Vet’s strongest Aura to encourage that.
Also now that you mention it Recon is extremely busted with Vet, I could see why it would be hard to want to switch to melee for a newer player who has the right Recon build
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The problem is not that survivalist is too good, it’s that the other nodes are too bad. Every other class has fairly impactful alternative auras, but +5% damage or movement speed is such a nothingburger that you’d be better off taking the node that actually does something.
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Yeah survivalist is mandatory on every build except hellbore. Would like it to simply give one ammo crate to bring into a mission and have different ammo efficiency skills for weapons similar to shocktrooper
b-but v-vet is op they c-can shoot their guns as the range focused class thats NOT ok
meanwhile ogryn being ridiculously broken left click autowalker simulator “this is fine”
or psyker having ridiculous endless range spam damage “its fine bro”
idk how people don’t realize that you will just stop bringing vets to havoc if that change happens without a heavy compensation since all they bring to the table compared to the other classes is pretty much survivalist and voc
and for some reason its mostly weirdo martyrdom zealots or the krieg / cadia role players that are so up in arms about it
and no for aurics and below ammo doesnt matter at all everything just dies from being looked at anyway and ammo packs give ridiculous amounts there compared to high havoc
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ogryn for example has better passives and op modifiers now than vet auras kekw and the gunlugger stuff feels better than all the dedicated range options for vet lol
marksmen focus is still a clunky meme from the past
and survivalist will always be better when all the other options are a measly 5% move speed or 5% damage
vet really needs a complete overhaul at this point if they want to continue with their current design philosophy
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vet is really op man, i did 1 million damage in havoc 40 by just stabbing enemies with duelling sword
then you gotta delete ogryn or nerf it flat by 90% lol as zealot or psyker you can just solo destroy aurics currently too but somehow noone ever complains about them its always vet that is somehow in the focus
Did you forget the ammount of cries and complains “ree wee ogryn steal my pick ups for his ammo inefficient rumbler spam”?
Running no survivalist wasn’t a problem only if your share pick ups and everyone runs with orange/yellow ammo count icon. But in reality there was a dude running full ammo, and others having red ammo icon.
Not sayin that ignoring pick ups and just move faster through the level is a benefit itself, cause less spawns.
i always saw those as bad vet players who couldn’t loot
i still take the looting paths even in havoc where there is no crafting materials to loot out of habit
Actually Veteran is just of war also includes demolition expert and survival especially in the imperial guard they are impressive.
I typically avoid survivalist unless it’s in my way, though seems too strong for Aura. While build specific pew pews with support. Could be tweaked or just left alone don’t really have much interest in either.
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Not sure to which level we going in DT, from both Anti-Ranged players & Developers.
The game is in terrible state of ranged gameplay, that I barely touch it anymore.
Just compared to helldivers 2, a game younger than DT by around 1.5years, got suppression working fine, staggering working correctly, and flinch on hit on AI.
it seems the train has passed on DT, if you enjoy ranged gameplay and we never going back.