For the Ogryn Talent Tree talent selection to increase to 90 points, we need more talent points. Just 30 talent points can make the decision difficult in many ways, so please increase the level limit by 5 levels
2 Likes
so tru give us 9000 talent points
12 Likes
Do we need that buff ?
7 Likes
how many talents do you want? YES 
5 Likes
That’s point though, no? The decisions are supposed to be hard to make - there’s many good stakes at hand, ranging from offence to defence, to utility.
15 Likes
I mean that’s the point of decisions, if you get everything desirable you don’t choose anything.
5 Likes
If anything I’m worried about the lack of tax nodes and raw damage boosts and drs
1 Like
Terrible notion, I’m afraid.
It was only done in VT2 because they added the stagger perk row with the implementation of the stagger system. That’s not happening here.
What I would support would be the addition of the stagger bonus damage to this game. Not the additional talents (Smiter, Mainstay, etc.) but just the base stagger states giving a damage boost (and not necessarily the 0/20/40% rates either, tweak it as needed). I don’t know why it was cut from the combat system in the first place but it’d sure help with stagger build viability. In VT2, stagger is quite meaningful and builds that focus it (e.g. FK bret sword, great axe slayer, etc) can really control the field and help the whole party increase both their damage and their own safety while doing so.
In DT, it is far less effectual and you mostly just swat guys around. If so many talents and blessings are going to contribute to it, it should actually do something.
I think we first have to see what they do with ogryn.
But for some builds you need those extra 5 points, the downside is that if the tree stays the same some strong build get even stronger.
3 Likes
Answer is… no we don’t
2 Likes
I ain’t going to say no to more points.
You thought I was gonna but i didn’t
1 Like
tah-lent? can we eat that?
5 Likes
Making it difficult is the point, it makes for meaningful choices and multiple variations of the same core builds. Even with just 2-3 talents more, I could get everything I wanted (minus multiple blitzes & ults) for most of my builds on any class. Not to mention how the game already struggles with the massive player power creep.
So no thank you. This would just make build planning boringly simple & easy, and destroy the game’s balance.
2 Likes
30 + 5 =90
Ok
To an extent I agree, there’s too many talents in some trees, but I don’t agree that the solution is more points. I think a lot of the trees would benefit from having picks that aren’t connected to anything. Just free floating ones you can pick with any build. The logistics of fitting as many talents as the new ogryn tree has into the standard connected tree design are kind of disadvantageous and lead to nonsensical restrictions.
For example, I’d like to hear one singular design thought that justifies locking this node:
Behind this node:
They’re totally unrelated. I think it was only done to stick to concept of connected paths and because it had to go SOMEWHERE. Actual talent design wise (i.e. opportunity costs and tradeoffs) it’s not good.
If the coherency talent was instead just a free pick not connected to anything else, it would actually make a lot of sense. It’d break the mold but eh, I don’t think the pathing is actually interesting anyway ngl
As someone who played the Borderlands series for quite awhile until it decided to stop hiring writers (so through the pre-sequal days), and who also played Destiny 2 until mid last year, no, no we do not need more talent points.
We as players are already busted af, and the whole point of a system like this is to create interesting decision making. What do you value, what are you willing to trade off for this particular talent you want, what type of build will YOU create that others won’t? Or what do you think a particular build desires over another build?
That’s where actual interesting buildcrafting comes into play, that’s where you actually have to use your noodle and go ‘ok, I want X, but what am I willing to sacrifice/not have for it?’. They’ve done a pretty excellent job so far making those choices pretty meaningful across all the classes, and Ogryn is finally getting the face lift to feel the same. If you give everyone everything they could possibly want, not only do you destroy the game balance in it’s entirety, but you also make the act of ‘making a build your way’ completely impossible.
You homogenize all builds into ‘you take these set of nodes, that’s it’, with no meaningful choices made and no personalization that occurs. The aforementioned games suffer from this greatly, Borderlands always gets to the point where it goes from ‘ohh cool I’m having so much fun deciding what way I want to play’ to ‘ok I’ve been given all the points and this game is solved now, I’m bored go next’. D2 used to have at least a few interesting choices when it came to what tools you brought to what mission, but now it’s just ‘ok bring a damage buff, 15 debuffs, 15 other none damage buffs, and infinite healing for good measure’, and lost all it’s creativity because of it, once again making the game ‘solved’ and making the game dull af to play as there was no variety in playstyle and everything functioned exactly the same. Heck you can even just look at any long form story based RPG and get the same exact feeling, half the reason playing through something like Mass Effect a second time is such a daunting task is because there’s nothing you’re going to do any differently. You’re just gonna make yourself op and then walk through the game in exactly the same way, making the idea of doing it for another 100+ hours sound completely unfun and not enjoyable.
You do not want this for Darktide, you think you do but you don’t. Build variety is the entire thing keeping Darktide alive, as while it is ‘solved’ in a lot of ways, you as the player can always make something else work just as good if you want variety in your life. Giving more Talent points nukes that, and is absolutely not required.
The amount of Psyker builds that would become exactly the same that I currently have if I even got just 2 more talent points is crazy, and I would not want that what so ever, as making those decisions is what keeps this game fun.
(And don’t worry, there will be plenty of super upvoted darktide lantern builds that you can copy past and ignore the decision making when this comes out should you not want to deal with it, can always leave the thinking to others 
)
1 Like
It is interesting, I decided based on your comment here to go through and actually see the power increase with ‘just raw numbers’, and in a standard build you gain about 20% DR from the previous tree on top of a like 55% increase in potential damage (for melee at least, but ranged is likely similar given it basically had no increase before).
That being said, they are only hitting a few of the Ogryn weapons when it comes to buffs (Gauntlet, Cleaver, Shovel, Ripper, and Club), while not hitting stuff like the Shield, Power Maul, Stubbers, Pick Axe, Rumbler, and Kickback, so I get the feeling they decided to let people ‘push for damage’ in their trees more than hit the rest of the arsenal for Ogryn. As while a good number of the under performers where hit, stuff like the Powermaul where left behind, but might be able to make up the difference by focusing more on damage nodes while other weapons can focus more on DR nodes.
And when it comes to DR, as stated it’s ‘only’ a 20% increase from the previous tree for most builds, and this is with me doing additive math for both just to make the difference easier to see/calculate (both are multiplicative with DR getting diminishing returns). The main thing they did which makes a lot of sense is nerf Delight in Destruction again, it now only stacks to x4 while still keeping the 8%, instead of x6. So it’s more consistent, but smaller, allowing other more interesting talents to ‘make up the difference’. And it’s only a 10% increase if you take into account the ogryn tree shift a bit back that made the ranged DR node harder to get to for melee, meaning it’s basically just the heavy hitter DR that’s ‘pushing you over’ what you had before. And given the fact ‘Ogryn felt squishy’ in current game, I think that’s totally fine, especially being able to push it little bits higher if one values it over damage.
(and in case one is curious, new talent tree actually loses 5 toughness from old talent tree even with the base toughness increase, because old talent tree had a bunch of random 15 toughness nodes that are no longer there, so it equals out to 145 toughness for most builds that could push to 160 if you wanted, where as the new tree will at max only ever be 140 toughness, so that’s neat).
But yeah, I’m thinking this will be ‘a power jump for sure but only to the point he’s doing as good/maybe a bit better than the squishies in his element’, kept mostly balanced by his weapon choices and him still being slow, if still a lot more powerful. Could be wrong, could be broken af, but if nothing else it seems ‘ok’ to me.
this would only make sense if it was restricted to havoc, and ONLY on levels 41+
I came to a similar conclusion but you can make it closer to 30-40% DR even. Also, you now have access to 25% impact on any build. Heavy hitter also gives out 96% cleave or 80% impact now which is also huge. The buffs are positively massive to the standard, existing heavy hitter build. The only loss is Bruiser being in a worse spot, otherwise it’s better in every way.
1 Like
Yeah looking at the details in build editor now, can really rack up the dps talents but will be losing 20 toughness and the option to get 35 max + curio enhancments.
There is some more attack speed talents though frienzied blows 10% ontop of easier to sustain heavy hitter 10% so he will be swinging a lot faster plus any improvements to my shovel and clever speeds.
Furious being locked behind lynchpin sucks but ill just ignore for the easier more powerful talents down the tree. FS swap lynchpin and Furious positions!~
Brusier got a nerf anyhow won’t be nearly as useful since the burst CD reduction will be gone when destroying a bunch of elites at once.
Here’s my 1st pass
Hmm still too bad Delight in Destruction is only bleed if included burn could add some nice synergy for gun Ogryn.
As is my gunner would be as follows alot more nice melee dps and ranged but probably gonna feel bit more sqishy
Ugh Hard Knocks is in a terrible spot, not impressed by tank Ogryn never need much DR and toughness regen and that’s all he has going for him.
1 Like