Penances are really fun!

I just want to unload some praise for the penances. I love that they are tied to the steam achievement system and their difficulty. Especially the class specific penances are really fun to complete and I love that they are not given freely, some of them are actually challenging which means I actually have to push myself to become better at the game.

Great work!


I welcome challenge, and I love a game that pushes me to become better. But not all penances do so. Asking 3 of your teammates to not damage the boss so you can kill it by yourself, spamming 1 ability is a great example of a penance that does not make you better at the game, nor does it push you since nearly everyone who wants to get it will do it at the lowest possible difficulty.


Sounds like a great one to find a group for in the discord or one to bust out with friends. No doubt it will create some friction if people expect randoms to facilitate such a boss kill without asking beforehand but I’m not sure this is a reason to not have it. Remember we will likely have months if not years to complete these penances before new ones come out.

I think it’s great that it makes us socialize a bit and it reminds me a lot of the way games like classic WoW, Diablo 2 and old school runescape force social interaction.

I disagree with this. How does not using ranged weapons at all make you a better player?

I completed up close and personal for the Zealot (On Malice don’t fire a single bullet) and it made me a worse player.

Team is pinned down by gunner and I’m the only one who has a shot?

“Sorry guys! I’m trying to complete my penance. I can’t shoot at the guy, and I’m all out of grenades. Don’t worry, letting you all die makes me a better player!”

There’s a line of traitor guardsmen all firing stunlocking las-fire down a corridor with no way to flank them?

“Hey guys, I can’t really help by firing back, so watch me either crouch and hide, or run directly into the ranged fire. Doesn’t this make me a better player?”

I lost 3 malice matches trying to complete that penance. We all died pinned down in each one. After I completed the penance and used my ranged weapon I rattled off 4 malice wins, and most ranged enemies went down instantly. Clearly, using my ranged weapon made me a better player, unlike what the penance was trying to make me do.

Penances need work. They’re more toxic than the score board and green circles.


Sorry but I just simply don’t agree with you. I only play with real life friends / groups from Discord. I don’t expect to complete the penances with randoms and never said I did.

I think any challenge where you ask other people not to play the game is a poorly designed challenge.

For example Ogryn has a challenge where you have to be in range of all 3 party members throughout the entire level. How is this a challenge for you as a player? It is entirely up to your party to complete it for you instead. If only one of them runs off to get a heal, scripture or grimoire YOU end up being the one with a failed challenge.

You just know that people will run this challenge on the lowest difficulty with 3 bots in a private lobby once those are available. It’s not a fun challenge.

Your own criteria are:

  • Actually challenging you personally as a player.
  • Pushing you to become a better player.

I’m giving you:

  • Two examples (from the top of my head) of penances that not meet your own criteria.

The penance is not making you not shoot, you are making you not shoot. If you are letting the team fail because you have to complete the penance that game that is on you, not the penance

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So explain to me, how do I complete the “Don’t shoot penance?”

And please explain to me how this would make me a better player.


I feel like people aren’t fully appreciating the irony of calling these “Penances”

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You either position yourself to intercept specials or you free up your team by tanking hordes and elites. Enabling your team to take care of them is a valuable role someone always has to perform

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The penance isn’t about tanking. It isn’t about positioning. How does not shooting my gun for an entire level, make me a better player.

If the penance was about tanking, it should be about aggro. If it was about positioning, it should be about how many melee flanking kills you got.

How is not shooting my gun teaching me positioning. How is not shooting my gun teaching me how to tank? Ive seen Ogryn’s pull aggro with ranged before switching to melee.

I’ve positioned myself in cover in a corridor, fired off some auto gun rounds to draw enemies to me, then closed into melee with them.

I’ve shot hounds off of teammates that were too far away.

How does the penance “don’t use your gun at all” make you a better player, in a game where FatShark has stated “Our hope is to bring true hybrid combat”. By not shooting your gun, you’re not engaging in the hybrid combat FatShark is trying to deliver.


The Ogryn challenge you described sounds like a fun challenge for a team. If this is not as exciting to you because you can’t lone wolf it then I can understand that but this is a great one to find a group with. Try going on the discord and asking around in the LFG channel you might just have a great time with a bunch of strangers that want to help you complete it or even complete it themselves.

Staying close to eachother absolutely will make you a better player btw, the coherency boons are no joke.

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The penance is about playing around your team and grabbing all the enemies charging in, it’s about watching your veteran’s ass so he doesn’t get jabbed by a sneaky stray scab. It is about positioning because you can’t take out specials from afar which means you have to prioritize the ones close to your team, you can’t do that from the back line.

How does the penance “don’t use your gun at all” make you a better player, in a game where FatShark has stated “Our hope is to bring true hybrid combat”. By not shooting your gun, you’re not engaging in the hybrid combat FatShark is trying to deliver.

This penance is not all games, you will probably do this once and from my perspective it’s a breath of fresh air that makes you have to think differently for a game or two.

That isn’t what the penance is about. You can do all of that even with the ability to shoot ranged.

Imagine you’re watching your Veteran who is shooting a rager. You notice a sniper 30m away about to shoot your veteran. Do you rush the 30m away sniper with melee. Or do you shoot the sniper with your ranged gun? What do you think the better player would do?

You see a trapper about to trap a teammate. Do you shoot the trapper and stun it or rush in and get into melee? Do you think the better player is going to risk letting the trapper get a shot off?

You keep dancing around the issue. Not using your ranged weapon makes you a worse player. That’s a fact. The penance makes you a worse player.

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I am playing with friends and groups from the Discord exclusively. I feel like you didn’t read my post lol as I already mentioned that. I am not someone who likes to “lone wolf”.

I think you have a dare I say it… warped definition of what fun / good design is.

No point in further debating a topic with someone who ignores the majority of what you are saying.

Happy for you that you’re enjoying the penances.


the penances are trash. having them to steam achievements is great, but they need to be helpful to teammates instead of working against the game.

I would rather grind to 100,000 kills for armor and still help my teammates, but instead I have penances that need a discord team to unlock them by begging the teammates not to shoot the mini bosses.