More than anything I’m baffled FS have gone down this route.
The absolutely toxic backlash from having a “Secret” discord group containing a select few people that influenced the direction of the game was monumental. I mean people were really annoyed about it. Seriously. It caused a lot of bad feeling.
And now here we are with a select few people influencing the direction of the game all over again. It’s almost as thought FS like smacking their head against a table and suffering the same pain over and over again.
I think you’re taking this too far. The mod wasn’t just made with that group of people, but also feedback from others too. Hell, the end product of the Volley Crossbow and 1h axe were my suggestions that I made. I mean, what more kind of feedback could they have taken?
This is wrong on so many levels. First, the mod was open to the public and anyone could contribute. It wasn’t a secret group, nor was it even intended for any of the changes to be made directly into the game. Fatshark just felt like the mod was a good starting point for this balance patch. The entire thing is also being playtested game-wide on a beta, so the changes can be refined. These aren’t at all final.
Secondly, even with the original WoM example that wasn’t how it went down at all. That’s only how people ‘thought’ it was and rumours, when in reality it was just Fatsharks doing, and in many ways they completely ignored very good feedback from the betas on WoM, etc.
But this isn’t the same thing at all. In fact, I’d say this is about as democratic as it gets with taking feedback directly from the players. Again, none of the changes are final, give feedback and stuff will change.
Dual Daggers and Sword & Daggers are some of the best weapons in the game for killing elites, have excellent dodge stats, high weapon speed, huge DPS against hordes, the only thing they lack is in crowd control. In what way does 10% crit chance removal completely cripple the weapons? Like, why do you want to have weapons that do practically everything insanely well?
My problem with this goes deeper. Not every weapon needs to have the same viability (Edit, read: percent selected) in a PvE game. This set of rebalances mostly lowers the skill ceiling and raises the skill floor of the weapons changed without taking into account deeper weapon mechanics or players who don’t meta slave with weapons, traits, and talents. Many of the changed weapons have intentional drawbacks, which are then offset with the rest of your loadout.
From my personal builds:
swiftbow pairs amazingly with an axe. Axe takes care of elites, swiftbow shreds hordes in an overall versatile and powerful combo. It’s not great on its own, sure, but with serrated shots/asrai focus/kurnous reward and cooldown reduction trinket you now how an insanely powerful build. Removing the downside of having limited elite damage, there’s no consideration between taking a longbow (which struggles against hordes) over a switfbow, or the melee complement.
Throwing axes Are absolutely BONKERS in the right hands, but is limited by damage against monster, berserker, and reload speed. So you pair it with high monster damage or high stun melee weapon, or use crunch on slayer. RV would be completely broken with the buffs to ranged + monster damage, and infinite ammo…
Axe is a super high skill ceiling weapon, hated at first through the first few games you use it until it grows on you. Beast on slayer, decent on elf. It already has a niche as a elite killer and high mobility weapon. Getting good with it is an incredibly satisfying experience that requires build tweaks and thought into how you’re going to play around it.
Pushing all of these weapons to a more “normalized” state just makes everything feel samey across weapons, subclasses, and worst of all, characters and heightens the already bad illusion of choice a between talents. I don’t disagree with all changes, but I think this should be taken only as the lowest pick, clearly bad weapons (of which arguably there are very few clearly bad weapons) and very slightly buffed as needed.
Sword & Dagger and Dual Daggers are the best melee weapons in the game. They are extremely powerful. All they lost is 10% crit chance on light attacks, they didn’t get nerfed into the ground at all. Get a grip on reality, please.
[/quote]
Yup, I would like to have the old Fuel to the Fire back as well. It seems they made two talents out of it, both being in certain ways a downgrade. This only makes sense if they considered Fuel to the Fire to strong. If you have tested the new Unchained talents feel free to agree or disagree with my assessment.
It’s about as democratic for the entire the player base as only asking people who downloaded the mod. Anyone who downloaded it and didn’t like it never went there again. IF they’d been told that it would make it into the game there might have been a lot more noise.
And although the exact details may be different, a select few people have changed the direction of the game. That is clear by the fact that this is even happening.
I think the entire thing should be removed and the BBB designed by the people who made that game. I think Legend live was pretty damn close to being really good. Some talents needed looking at, some weapons needed a little tweak.
That’s all gone. We’re building on modders work now.
tbh I feel like fuel for the fire should just have the stagger from big stagger thrown onto it and that should be the talent
Big stagger right now is just a 2 minute cooldown on a shout level stagger with zero extra bonuses, the power from fuel for the fire would be really nice to have back there
As starting point it might be okay. But it depends how fixated they are on that point. Several weapons received really huge buffs with dps increase up to 25 - 30 %. This is far to much in my opinion. And I can only half complain as FS says they checked their data as well -_- Have we word on how long the Beta goes? I really feel they should be a bit more moderate with buffing and nerfing.
Also, I would like to see some changes to the stronger careers. It seems they mostly buffed here for a game which hardly needed “only” buffs.
FS there have been some interesting ideas in the recent week. Don’t shy away from bringing balance in both directions.
Well that seems a bit, weird. You want some weapons to just be straight up worse than others? I feel like it’d be good for the game if we had less weapons that were blatantly stronger/weaker than others. Weak weapons get left in the dust and don’t see much use, while more powerful ones get overused. It’s not good for the game. You can absolutely make weapons feel on-par with each other, while making them distinct and fulfill different roles.
And that’s a perfectly valid and fine opinion to have. Which is why you should provide such criticism so that the devs can maybe change something about this. None of the changes here are set in stone, weapons will change, tweaks from the mod can get overturned, etc.
Mate. It didn’t make it into the game yet, it’s in bloody beta. It’s on a different client. Now that the changes are getting a serious look over, well then maybe you should bloody make actual points about this then. None of the changes made it into the game. Now is your time to make noise about what you don’t like, everyone can. It literally just came out today, give it some time, they said at least to the end of this month it’ll keep going.
Okay, how many people do you need to make changes? A large part of this forum got involved with that mod, now it’s being taken into beta so that everyone in the game who bothers to play the beta can now give feedback on it.
That’s what they’re bloody doing. The game designer literally came in and told you that the changes they saw in the mod were a fine starting point and they’ll refine it as the month ticks on. The changes aren’t in the game yet, they’re in bloody beta.
Yea, there are different options they could go there, the one you mentioned would work too. At the moment the new active talents feel partially like a downgrade. If you have tested her new talents feel free to discuss in my thread. Trying to get it started for more visibility -_-
I’m making the points as I find them - I’m posting things as I find them and giving my feedback on the careers I’ve played and how my playtime has gone, and one of my points is the whole thing smacks of the Dev’s not having the courage of their convictions and doing it themselves and instead outsourcing it to modders.
The base for everything from now on is the modders vision, not the devs vision.
If the dev’s had a vision and a plan in place we’d be implementing that instead.
And don’t worry. I’ll be making my points heard all the while the beta is running. If I’d known the mod was going to make it into the game I’d have been causing a rukus there too.
Viability is the wrong word here. I mean selection rates. Some weapons feel off for the first few games/hours playing them until you gain a hold of it and master it. I’ve found that very few weapons (with the right combinations) are NOT viable, even fun on legend. Exe sword might be the “best” number-wise option for kruber, but I hate the clunkiness and lack of versatility, I’d rather have sword or sword/shield.
Numbers can’t account for versatility either. I keep harping on throwing in this thread but while numbers-wise they don’t perform great, UTILITY-wise best in slot. Stagger everything. No teammate will ever be hit by an overhead again. How do you account for that with percentage changes/buffs/nerfs?
Yeah I definitely agree. I’ve played with the executioner very little, partially because it feels a bit boring to use, but partially because it’s so extremely overused. I’m a big fan of weapons that have a lot of combos you can do with them, such as sword & shield, axe & shield, tuskgor spear, etc.
Which is why I love the changes to Halberd, for example (not all of them mind you), because it gives you many more combos to work with, and makes the weapon more fun and interactive to use. It’s what I’d like for most weapons to be like, and it’s why I think that just buffing numbers on certain weapons isn’t enough, and that new attack patterns should be made, instead of just shuffling around what’s already there. Some weapons just lack complexity and it makes them boring to use, even if they’re effective.
ok here’s somewhere I can contribute to the conversation a little more constructively
Changing movesets is something that has a lot of potential for good change but it’s important to keep the “soul” of the weapons intact if that makes sense, it’s why we ended up reverting some of our moveset/animation changes in the mod because it deviated the identity of the weapons too much
It’s not something I advocate for on all weapons. Weapons like 2h hammer, executioner and rapier are weapons with simple, but impactful attack patterns, that also have properties that make them more complex (like headshot multiplier), and there’s nothing wrong with that.
But then you have weapons like greatsword, where both light attacks and heavy attacks fulfill the exact same role (horde clear), and push attacks are your only dedicated single-target anti-armour attack. The heart of the weapon are its heavy attacks, you keep those, then add attack patterns to change the weapon to give it more combos and make it more fun to use. You could transform the light attack combo into a single target anti-infantry attack chain, meant for killing maulers, savages and monks, and give an extra stab attack to chain the heavy attack into, while keeping the DPS similar. There, you got a weapon that’s a lot more fun to use because you have more attack patterns to work with, still keeps the soul of the weapon (horde clearing heavy attacks), and you no longer have to spam push-attacks with nothing else which looks jank. Same with falchion, axe and so on.
Those half cost pushes though. I love them on HM for spamming pushes. Theyre ridiculously versatile.
