Overcomplicated Horsesh*t: Why Darktide's Systems Make No Sense

I have been spending the past few months basically onboarding new, more casual players among my friend group.

As a result, I’ve had the opportunity to see the systems Fatshark has created through their eyes.

And let me tell you: it’s all overcomplicated horsesh*t.

Okay, levelling up is simple. A skill tree is not too difficult and it makes sense. One level, one talent point, follow the shiny lines. This one, they understand and follow.

Everything else…not so much.

Take weapons, for example. Random stat distributions, empowerment, final stat levels, item tiers, the mastery system - it’s all pointlessly overcomplicated for something that could and should be as simple as ‘this gun does x damage over y shots against z armor, put part 1 and 2 on it to achieve effect ! and @.’ Instead we get four tiers of blessings, a grind system, sacrifices, blessing unlocks being restricted to tier unlocks, and other random nonsense to get in the way of the basics.

This is not a difficult thing to do. Weapon systems, weapon customization, and stats are simple. They’ve been a solved puzzle for 20+ years of game development. But Fatshark INSISTED on overcomplicating it so we’re left with a nonsensical result with no onboarding for new players and no point to it beyond elongating a grind.

Want to know what the new-ish, casual players I hang with do with this overcomplicated system? They ignore it. They’ll find a weapon combo they like and never let go of it because the whole grind system is too much to bother engaging with. The more experienced ones with a bucket of resources MIGHT try something new via force-levelling but they’ll ignore 90% of the system. Melk scarcely exists to these people because he never offers anything and his currency is weird and separate.

Then there’s missions. Equally overcomplicated, equally pointless. I’m babying these guys through quickplay, but even the ones who hit 30 don’t want to deal with Havoc mode and it’s morbillion tiers and are ambivalent to Mortis Trials and its random psyker-jar-memories. Story? Story doesn’t exist because it’s fed in disconnected segments through a RNG mission board that has no reason to exist and some cutscenes that are an active insult to our intelligence. Orthus Offensive? Not on the mission board, doesn’t exist to these people.

Cosmetics? None of them are happy with the FOMO and the fact they can’t buy, say, that cool flame sconce backpack. They barely engage with penances as it stands. They don’t seem to really know the commissary exists.

Darktide’s systems are reinventing the wheel pointlessly, is what I’m trying to get at. They don’t DO anything, and they’re overcomplicated to the point of turning away players.

Weapons should be simple. They should have no ‘stat bars’. They should do a set amount of damage in a set way that can be boosted by perks and blessings that are equally set and not in nonsense tiers.

Missions should be simple. There should be a set campaign of linear, chronologically connected campaign missions. There should be quickplay. There should be a single hard mode. There MIGHT need to be an arena mode like Mortis, but it is an optional addon. There does not need to be 50+ different types of difficulty, most of them generated in the ‘ubersweat’ mode solely to create grind.

The store should be simple. There should be a single premium currency, one that can be earned as well as bought. Cosmetics should be in a catalogue. The commissary should do something worthwhile.

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its what 22 patches of reworks do to a game

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This isn’t 22 patches of reworks. This is a design direction that’s completely dedicated towards making things more complex for no reason. Weapon stats have been in since launch and been overcomplicated from the get-go. Every single overcomplicated system has been delivered as one wholesale thing and then left to rot.

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they wern’t that complicated back when you could only acquire weapons through shop camping or completing a mission

do we want to bring up every system the devs have discarded and put under their massive rug?

Its no secret that this game was supposed to look very different to what we have today

your friends need to understand that the systems we have today are patches to old ones that ended up being so flawed they had to change route

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There’s nothing overly complicated about weapon stats. There are perfect weapons with obvious dump stats and everything else you get along the way (because we’re getting scraps and your character is too poor so they have to make do).

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Which is all symptomatic of inherent design flaws. Reworks or not.

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…IDK Mister E just released a more detailed video of what Rediters already knew. The game averages numbers for simpler view in Morningstar and Psyk but doesn’t always reflect in match math… its small and hopefully is not affecting breakpoints.

It’s almost like the coders just did a RNG roll and didn’t add a round up line…except for round up on appearance it’s a short term laziness equaling harder in long run.

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the mechanics behind stasts have always been overlycomplicated, in a stupid way, since Closed BEta

but their argument was that ‘‘players weren’t supposed to know’’

all that theorycrafting behind toughness, cleave, mass, impact, stopping power, collateral, suppression, catapulted, rending, brittleness, close range, shieldbreak, stagger, weapon special deactivation, consecutive strikes, dogs, Movement and how you can feel a difference of 0.01 between a 0.10 movment speed weapon and a 0.09, but you can barely feel a difference between a 0.51 weapon and a 0.50, the DoT curves burn, soul blaze, bleed, every one behaving differently from each other (but in the end they are just damage)

and the general attitude about those: is it a feature or a bug?

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As Mr. E said, what’s actually going on is most likely a difference in calculations between the local game (psyk, solo games) and the server. I don’t know why this is, but it could be due to architecture and it might not be an easy fix.

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I think much of this would be “okay”(ish) if they just bothered to put some goddamn text windows with proper descriptions in!!

Absolutely beggars belief that you have to Google and wade through forums just to find out what the hell “strength” is and what it does. Same goes for pretty much all stats. Almost nothing is explained.

I’m over 1k hours and still have to Google how brittleness effects enemies etc.

All this stuff could simply be explained in a text box!

And a beastiary too!

Give us a karkin’ index!!!

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What, exactly, do weapon stats add to the game? Why do they exist? What purpose do they serve?

Because all they’re currently doing is being an artificial grind and/or reroll generator.

There’s no reason for them to exist. They complicate balance and everyone is going to pick something with the dump stat regardless.

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Same thing as the quality ranges did in VT2: you get a crappy one when you’re a baby and then you appreciate the godroll when you either luck out and get it for free or spend your hard-earned currency on it.

Cool. It was a bad idea in VT2 and it’s a bad idea now.

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Weapon stats I think are largely fine. I think they should be normalized for sure (the fact I only just recently learned from Darktide Lantern that Stopping Power isn’t just stagger thresholds but also effects weapons damage values verses armor…after playing the game not knowing that for 2k hours…haha…ha…haaa…I never understood the hype around the Plasma Gun…). Something along the lines of ‘Strength’ (equating to all forms of damage and impact rolled into one, to also be clearer to players what strength even is), Reload Speed/Finesse (rolling stuff like ‘crowd control’ into Finesse as well as it half the time has attack speed put into it for reasons), Mobility, and ‘Weapon Unique Property’ (equating to stuff like Crit Chance/modifiers rolled into one, or blast radius on explosive weapons, or Stability as a fall back if nothing is needed), but I think having a ‘tangible growth’ in your weapons along with your character isn’t a bad thing. I just think having to go to said Darktide Lantern and hover over each stat on a weapon to get the back end values dictated by it probably isn’t the best way for that sort of thing given everything else the player is thrust into…

Everything else I agree with though, games a mess at this point with little direction, and a new player is given very little reason to care about any of it, much less understand it. Could be streamlined quite heavily for sure.

the worst thing is, there’s no benefit to it, it’s not like there’s a choice to be made, all the stats do is be a 50iq hurdle whether or not you can find the dump stat and that’s it.

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So it’s for the sense of pride and accomplishment that comes with forced, fake progression. Alright.

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Well the progression is real. God roll weapons feel better to use. That’s why they’re harder to get.

Vermintide 2, after way more development, is still much simpler with most of its core systems including itemization. Darktide was overcomplicated since the very beginning - just look at the weapon modifiers, the maximum is 80%. Yes it’s a percentage symbol there, the minimum is 0% and the maximum is not 100% but 80%, because this is obvious and logical. And that was here way before either of the two crafting updates.

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not to mention that those numbers are misleading, 0% damage weapons exist, THEY DO DAMAGE, and its not even like, half of weapon’s damage, we are all Jasturbating about 20-30% of the actual overall stat

a 0% damage plasma gun does 24% less damage than a 80% plasma gun, how funny does that sound to you

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What you’re describing already exists ; it’s called Vermintide 2.
Unfortunately during development of DT FatShark contracted an extreme case of overambitious zealotry and trashed about 3/4 of everything they learned during VT2’s lifecycle, all the while trying to reinvent the wheel (I mean, 2 years for a functional but overcomplicated weapon system ? Hello ???).

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