And still has 31 stack limit does it not? You can exceed the 16 from weapons via other sources.
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Dig up the patch notes from that time, and then look at the various discussions on the various discussion platforms for some parroted explanations…fun!
Ogyrn and op don’t belong in the same sentence
Ogryn is inarguably overpowered right now. It deals insane melee and especially ranged damage even while being severely ammo restricted in Havoc.
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people don’t tend to support nerfs they are never popular so perhaps we are stuck now… unless FS wants to do the unpopular thing… slowly
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I would rather something be a little overpowered than severely underpowered. I wouldn’t want Newgryn gutted, but he’s overtuned and will eventually need a tweak.
If an Ogryn player is even remotely decent, they can put out crazy numbers with unremarkable gameplay, and that’s the problem. It’s the reason I thought Psyker staffs were more problematic than the Dueling Sword. DS is good and “not hard”, but Psyker cheese is literally braindead.
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Talents not being blandly equal across all loadouts is fine, actually. Removing synergies is removing half the point of having RPG elements.
Just nerf it down to 1 stack per light attack if it’s doing too much currently. Though I’m not convinced it actually is. Seems very likely to me vast majority of enemies are being killed outright before bleed can do much.
But if scoreboard has a plugin that shows how much total damage was bleed, somebody post some scoreboards showing what total damage the bleed is contributing.
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Heavy hitter also doesn’t buff bleed damage anymore I’m pretty sure. It used to be all damage, but is now melee damage.
No that was a typo, it was always just boosting melee damage.
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These multi year lasting typos and wrong descriptions are really annoying. We even got a new one:
(it’s all stagger and damage not just melee apparently)
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Now regarding the general topic and OP’s suggestions.
These don’t seem unreasonable on paper, though I haven’t had enough chance to play post update to have strong opinions about Ogryn’s overall balance state. HH build definitely does seem really strong, not seeing big issues with the others.
BUT. And this is a colossal BUT. Immediately returning to a state where basically Ogryn, and Ogryn alone, once again, has their power chipped away at until they’re the only ones playing an honest game MUST be avoided.
I think the Ogryn mains would very rightfully revolt at that point and question why he’s the only overpowered thing in the game FS seems to think is worth addressing.
So if FS feels they need to tone him down a bit from where he is now, and from what I’ve read it seems sensible that at some point they do. It MUST be a holistic balance patch addressing over performers across the board. You CANNOT start nerfing Ogryn again while leaving tactical awareness, IoD, pious cut throat, Psykinetic aura, duty and honour and so on alone.
Do a proper balance pass bringing the dumbest stuff more in line FS. Cut out this piecemeal nonsense where you mostly just nerf Ogryn and cause another death by a thousand cuts.
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A few of us have said this many times before, more times recently too. Didn’t we JUST see this movie and how it played out? What’s with the goldfish memories? Did Sefoni mind-wipe us in the Mortis Trials?
Also worth reminding everyone that Ogryn is the only one who got the new ogryn-tested “sensible CDR” (YMMV).
-What’s playing honey?
-Oh the new “House of A Thousand Nerfs II: This Time It’s Personal” movie.
-Oh, didn’t we just see that? Pass.
Bring on the Big Balance Betas tout de suite (toot sweet), the piecemeal balance passes are absolute hogwash as we’ve seen over the last year.
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Tested this, and it’s very true. Throw on slam and Elite hordes (minus Crushers) melt to cleaver light attacks, unable to do anything thanks to near perpetual stagger. It’s a shank fest and quite funny to see
One thing that sometimes get lost in these balance discussions and is most essential for ogryn is combined factors
Remember it isn’t just his skills that can shape his power but his weapons and their blessings/perks, enemy health values, attack and heavy prep time and in some cases their stagger values along with their unexpected interactions that can give largely give in comparison with others
(like this for instance)
NOT saying u guys are whether u want a nerf, buff or keep the same but not considering this stuff is how u get the infantry lasgun, helbore and combat shotgun to have mobility stats close to the bolter (down to the higher running cost too!) while top teirs like the knife, auto, recon and dueling barely gets a nerf
Personally I don’t want what they just did to the helbore to happen to big man without our say and a public beta being done to address it, no more of this behind closed doors only youtubers get a say stuff
Tldr: He’s probably a bit op but letting fatshark sort it alone is a horid idea and would lead us back to him sucking while the others power scaling is arguabley worse
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i agree with this as well. First, they should focus on balancing game systems like gold toughness, CDR, and smite.
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Agreed. This is Fatshark we’re talking about though, so I’m either expecting no changes at all, or they massively knee-jerk and wreck him. I hope they prove me wrong.
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now, light attacks restore toughness, so there’s not much incentive to use heavy attacks like before. on top of that, applying Bleed grants TDR, making it very hard to go down. I find it problematic that even an Ogryn can take down most enemies just by spamming light attacks. The beauty of Tide combat was supposed to be utilizing pushes, blocks, and dodges to maneuver through fights.
Take a look at this - without using any pushes or blocks, just spamming light attacks, a single Ogryn can handle this many enemies. And yet, I only lost about one-third of my HP. On top of that, combat rarely involves firearms and is almost entirely resolved through melee.
I am strongly against Bleed being applied by light attacks, even if it’s just 1 stack.
100% batter had to be removed and ogryn compensated with better cleave profiles. they did the lazy bandaid instead which hurts balance
i would be okay with it, better than everyone op. at least one class i can play without falling asleep. maybe designers for other classes will wake the fu ck up one day and stop making the game more and more braindead
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