Ogryn is arguably the easiest class in the game, the only other is zealot, but ogryn has by far the lowest skill ceiling
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Nah depends on where you play it. On lower difficulties sure, on H40 you could watch the 4 playtesters struggle to beat even the first room on H40 for hours because they first had to learn how to play it.
Every other class you can just pick up and spam your active and be fine. Ogryn is the only class with an enforced skill floor. This dates all the way back to the release days where people said he canât do damnation because of shooters (the skill floor was sliding). He does have the lowest skill ceiling also though.
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Youâre just sour that Ogryns canât use the boring OP duelist sword or knife. /s
Pained Outburst wants to be your friend.
Playing an ogryn makes me sad when there is an above average player on other archetype in the team. Human classes have way too many attacks with infinite cleave, like endless grenade spam, flamers, shriek and staves, plasmaguns (not infinite, but stil very high cleave). Also add in list fast OP melee weapons like rapiers that kill crusher faster than an ogryn can charge his heavy attack. And the icing on the cake is golden toughness which makes humans so durable that the ogryns can only envy them.
Also, a lot of the ogryn talents are weaker versions of talents from other archetypes and the paths to his keystones have too many tax nodes (like extra +5% damage) that donât provide any real benefits
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Iâm a massive fan of the heavy attack focus. I think a lot of people who complain about Ogryn light attacks are class tourists 
. When people complain about feeling slow, or lumbering, I feel like they donât understand/appreciate that THATâS THE KARKING POINT!
While build/skill and weapon diversity could be better balanced, I really really hope that we donât lose the heavy attack class focus.
I always find it interesting how people argue against Ogryns feeling weak (not op, but like half the discussion in this thread), and yet, theyâve been nothing but nerfed for the past few patches whenever theyâve been touched, with basically nothing to compensate for it.
- The Best Defense and Smash 'Em! reduced from 25% to 20% toughness gains
- Delight in Destruction reduced from 50% DR with 5 bleeding enemies, to 48% DR with 6
- Bruiser reduced from 5% CDR to 4%
- Rending pip reduced from 10% to 5%
- the 10% DR pip moved down further in the tree, making it much harder to access unless you plan to be a gun Ogryn
- Reduced âGet Stuck inâ from a 6âs duration to a 4âs duration.
Just to name the main few that come to the top of my head. This all occurring while the Psyker gets an entire talent tree face lift with a smattering of buffs through out, Veteran got a few face lifts that while havenât landed perfectly, has left them still in a pretty decent spot, and Zealot continues to be the best class in the game alla having a boat load of really potent effects they can just proc on themselves without hardly any effort after buildcrafting.
This all on top of the fact that Ogrynâs hitboxes are just oversized and heavily jank, resulting in disabliers routinely hitting them a lot more despite you performing the same actions, gunners melting you faster as you canât really get behind cover like other classes (on top of your dodge/slide distance just being worse), and a âhasnât been touched or updated in yearsâ weapon sweet that basically only allows an Ogryn to use the most recently released weapons to even function âwellâ (Pick Axe + Heavy Stubber) or hide behind a shield just cause it gives you your own wall to carry around with you.
I donât know about you, but that to me sounds âweakerâ regardless of how you slice it. They take more damage, mitigate less, and overall have a simpler gameplay loop that lowers the skill ceiling capable of being expressed by them drastically. I played through all the classes, enjoyed my time with all of them initially, but as time has gone on, and I finished all the penances, I noticed that while Iâll routinely gravitate back to playing my Psyker, Zealot, and Veteran on a pretty consistent loop, my Ogryn has been pretty much entirely âbenchedâ in my head, due to just feeling bad to play.
And this isnât even me saying âohh I donât like their heavy attack loopâ, I do! Itâs a nice novelty the other classes donât really experience since they get to run around weaving in combo strings together, it helps lean in to the Ogrynâs âsimple mindâ and honestly doesnât feel to bad when youâre in the wave. But I continually find myself feeling âdrastically weakerâ than the tinies. My gun lugger (whoâs talents have received nothing but small buffs) continues to feel like nothing but a chore to use, as I either continually run around with red ammo eating up all my teams resources, or play a micro managing game of trying to weave in using melee but doing so drastically less effectively as you donât have access to the bread and butter melee combo of âBatter + Delight in Destructionâ. Or you try and go melee, and subject yourself to the aforementioned jank hitbox and your model constantly getting stuck on things so you donât go as far as you expect, resulting in the vast amount of disablers in Auric+ ruining your day without any real way of dealing with them, as their slow and cumbersome animations means even the rock canât really come out fast enough to deal with them before the net is fired/the dog is on top of you.
This all to say, âOgryn needs some helpâ, and I donât see why even âthe mainsâ would argue against this. If you like Ogryn in your Heresy in below games, thatâs awesome for you, Iâm happy to hear it. Heâs still a fun fantasy that can do pretty alright when played well. But his ceiling is insanely low, and the same level of play will do just better on other classes, while the other classes can also learn and perform even MORE to do even BETTER than the big man could ever dream. His CAâs only give toughness by dumping resources or putting yourself out of position, or actively hinder him by forcing everything to attack him for little to no benefit. His main âbest in classâ talents lock you to particular playstyles just due to the nature of where talents are located on the tree (Sotfen Them Up preventing the use of Rock, Batter preventing the use of Point-Blank Barrage, even Big Boom now preventing the use of Indomitable). And basically all of his Keystones are lack luster/donât even work, making it pretty much âheavy hitter or bustâ.
To me, even just giving the big man a dodge distance buff added to their unique DR buff and letting him knock over small enemies with a talent when he dodges to keep the âfoot caughtâ feeling low would do leagues of help alone in âgetting him to feel usable againâ.
But by all means, if one wants to keep arguing against their supposed âfavorite classâ that âeveryone is just a tourist onâ from being as capable as the rest of the classes, I mean more power to you I guess? Make it so more people continue to ignore âyour faveâ and not play them due to it being unrewarding, continue to rightfully tell you you are playing a weaker class, and watch them continue to have fun doing better than you for less effort on any other class while you continue to complain about them like they are somehow the problem. Iâm sure thatâs the caseâŚdefinitely none of the stuff I brought up above.
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Which branch of the tree+keystone is that down again? Oh right, feel-mostly-pain.
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Buff ogryn.
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Yesterday I was in match, dodging a trapper net and instead of dodging Iâm frozen in place so the animation can play. This doesnât happen to me on other classes.
Itâs not a focus. Itâs a dogma. The talent tree specifically excludes light attacks entirely.
You actually wrote that. Beyond cringe.
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Thereâs slow and lumbering, but also tangy and stronk, or tanky and strong, and then thereâs slow and lumbering and more fragile, and weaker with worse toys.
Iâm not a PnP D&D guy, but I like CRPGs, the CR (challenge rating) means a CR30 vet, a CR30 zealot, a CR30 psyker and a CR30 ogryn should all be the ~same threat level to the enemy. Assuming level=CR normally, so CR30 is expected, right now the ogryn CR is low 20s.
Itâs been a death of a thousand little direct nerfs, drive-by nerfs, power creep etc, itâs noticeably behind the other archetypes. We loves our ogryns but heâs clearly been starved and neglected, while the other kids got taken to the Disney World.
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Even if Ogryn isnât that much more mechanically weak than the other archetypes, Ogrynâs presentation feels weak with most of their weapons pushing enemies around (again, not much more than other human-sized weapons) rather than exhibiting the raw strength an Ogryn is known to have.
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This guy gets it.
Hehehe yes itâs a silly thing to say, hence my cheeky little monkeymoji â relax! 
The fact is theyâve made what turns out to be a gripping experience in Ogryn despite itâs many flaws and limitations. I still want to see progress, especially in making light attacks more relevant because I think itâs very difficult to balance and make interesting weapons otherwise. I also enjoy strong heavy attacks and donât want to see that aspect watered down unduly.
Yeah⌠whatâs really confused me along the way is how much direct and indirect tankiness has been nerfed out of Ogryn without any survivability balancing in the other direction. The mobility is still poor, the gunner target is still large, and the weapon balance is still frankly abysmal.
Iâd be fine with some of those things with extra tankiness or special Ogryn abilities like dodging to push punies, but there havenât been a lot of those yetâŚ
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I would disagree here⌠Yes, itâs the simplest class in the game in terms of to learn & understand node & combat-wise, 100%, no denying that point, but the skill-ceiling with actually playing him is actually one of the highest besides Psyker which might be surprising, but Iâll explain my reasoning. What I mean is in the sense that Ogryn is so unbelievably bad in his current state mechanical/skill/node-wise that it takes even more skill to succumb to all his weaknesses. I only say this because in my experience with the class thereâs very few people that can operate him at full-capacity in matches & dominate in an effective manner. Most players Iâve seen just fail or die constantly, itâs really ongoing. It takes vastly more skill you literally get punished hard for not being on your A-game with him. Literally, to prove my point, just a few weeks back as an example played with two Ogrynâs that went down literally every 5-10 mins. It was sickening to me & very exhausting having to clutch & rescue them all of the time. So, yes, you do have to have more skill than other classes, especially in Havoc with him. Most people Iâve ever seen in this game suck hard with Ogryn which I find is just a fact if you play as much as me. I feel that you need much more practice & competence to push through & master him. Out of all the classes in this game, Iâve noticed whoever is playing Ogryn is either trash or pretty much a god. Thereâs almost no in-between here in my eyes. Either youâre great or youâre not. Out of the almost 4k matches in my time, thatâs been my personal experience watching other players being the big man.
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Please donât give me PTSD of those dark days of people saying ogryn had to run shields and getting the unholy combination of shield and stubber that just meant he was going to be useless 98% of the time and hoover up all of the ammo on the map so he can waste it all on hordes some more.
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Yeah but IIRC the game+shooters changed very quickly after launch in Heresy and Damnation to where it was possible for ogryn to participate and contribute, which is good too because the shield quickly fell off past heresy and krourk stubber was always and is ugh.
Right now itâs a bit reminiscent of launch ogryn vs game.
It was always possible for ogryn to contribute on damnation.
That was even before I found my one true love, rumbler.
Werenât the critical changes in by then? Too lazy to go look up notes and crap, was it slightly after ?
YES! Oh sweet rumblerâŚ
Maybe the problem with rumbler is internally it and the kickback are both referred to as Thumper (Vietnam War nickname for m79 grenade launcher), âThumper good know, move alongâ.
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The changes came a while after, the game had really strong shooters for a couple months. It was a bit like playing Havoc 30 or so, except they also really pinned you down hard if they caught you. And people today are doing H40 with full ogryn squads now. Just like then, Ogryn havoc viability is definitely mostly a matter of learning the flank/suppress/engage gameplay and being good at the slide + heavy dance (and accepting that unlike Vet, you canât facetank. Some things never change).
It was a skill floor no other class had just like how Ogryn has a skill floor on H40 today that no other class has, the dynamic is pretty similar honestly, just the details changed a bit (itâs a bit less about sliding and suppressing on H40 and much more about knowing when to run in)
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To be honest Iâm not positive which ones youâre referring to in this particular instance, itâs been too long and a lot of the early stuff has blended together in my head. Either way Iâd say within a couple of weeks of release is pretty fair to say as being playable without shields. (And I saw the shield thing for months and in reference to everything above malice, despite it being blatantly untrue.)
I still just love the rumbler too much, Iâm a little salty thereâs not really a good way to make it work with gunlugger very efficiently (versus stubber with fire modifier on the ability) for even more rumbling.
EDIT: Like @Murderer said, the only major one I can recall early on was the shotgunners being made less⌠awful, as they were pretty much the one thing that truly traumatized me. (Well, that and the servers)
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