I think @murderer answered it, bit fuzzy here too now and blended as well.
P.S. IIRC again, overall though it did feel like Ogryn was unfairly targeted near launch, deja vu all over again.
P.P.S.
Yeah I remember how much easier it was on zealot for instance near launch vs ogryn, and since players were new and worse it means ogryn had worse teammates and worse players playing them too.
That reminds me of my sheer sadness at them nerfing the hell out of the talent that gave a ton of damage reduction when allies were downed/dead, changing it from a consistent passive damage reduction to less of it and only active near the downed people. That talent did work for helping me carry early bad players. Even the remnant of it now I still wish theyâd just reduce the damage reduction it gives but make it always active rather than a distance requirement.
Another example of nerf/balances done in a vacuum and at a particular moment in time, in perfect isolation (here behind his wall). This is not solely an FS+DT issue as other games have done this repeatedly but someone there needs to have a big picture overview of a class+game and speak up, even if 1 person champions an archetype and give things a once over before theyâre implemented. Itâs the curse of looking at design and balance changes through a paper tube.
So (restating the obvious): this " Wonât give in too strong", gets nerfed, and at the time maybe it made more sense, the rationale being âogryn has plenty of DR and CC and DPSâ. But just a bit further down the line comes a little nerf here, another there, and so on, losing DR+DPS+CC, maybe gaining a bit with specific weapons like Pickaxes and buffed Thumper Kickback.
But then when you look at the sum and the overall effect of all the changes, well, here we are âOgryn weakâ. Throw in the development slowdown over the last year and âOgryn weak to a long timeâ.
I know different dev hats and stuff, and Iâm dumbing it down, but would anybody have objected if any and all dev time that went into Havoc had gone into class and overall balance instead? I shouldnât have said that , zealots and vets will probably get a power dueling sword now and ogryn will lose more stacks of something.
despite trying the different classes,
(besides psyker cause f them harry potter wand wiggling chicken legs)
the moment i learned the finer arts and movement pattern around ogryn, combined with the all around motion and flow of the game, i literally
veteran feels boring to me and the zealot reminds me of
while ogryn checks all the boxes of a character that appeals to me. plus some 70inch or more 
whats not to love 
in a way its the closest to quake 1 playstyle that instantly clicks and directly revives 30 year or nerve and synapse constructs that lay dormant for so long.
does he need adjustment so heâs a default havoc 40 pick, absolutely.
but in recent games, say the last 250, i had about 2-3 people âoutperformingâ me in regards to overall contribution (no i dont count a floor scrubbing zealot with 5 or more downs in his pursuit of overall dps and still falling short behind 
)
but ALL boxes checked
most stuff picked up
most objective stuff pushed/scanned
cohesion and putting people back on their feet
and of course most dmg and enemies killed
auric damnation or HISTG is a âfish in waterâ experience, which i wish i could translate into havoc 1:1 rather than the static yellow toughness and bubble style.
as for the weapons, the truly need adjustment to âmodern timesâ tried the old but(no more) gold bully club, grenade gauntlet, ripper, shield
and for having to put in a lot more effort i was at 60% of my normal output with kickback/pickaxe, which feel like the most valid combo.
ironically i saw one(1/uno) shield/rumbler ogryn go batshyte with his dps and wondered how he pulled it off, then again he basically threw himself into every crowd with âcomplete trustâ of the team picking up the pieces.
so iâd put that playstyle into the same box as the stubber combo with a good rear crew.
iâd love to go full circle once again with my very first loadout butcher3/ripper combo
(the longest time it took me to get a perfect 80/80/80/60 butcher 3, only to never use it cause it wasnt valid by then anymore, the irony)
alas, today with hordes of crushers/mutants you need the oneshot guarantee to thin the crowd
So far, I have 1300 level on Ogryn, 700 on Psyker, roughly a 1000 split on Vet & Zealot. Although, Iâve played Ogryn the most & I feel that Iâm pretty decent with him overall. My skill in Darktide personally doesnât really lie with the big man honestly as much as I like the class. I feel that my strength is in shooting like FPS games, so Veteran personally would be my strongest class skill-wise. I feel that with shooting for me at least I dominate much better. Totally, everybody is different & has different play styles & preferences. Personally, I donât like Psyker either too much, but I can admit that they have the best potential at getting the highest damage on the board with certain builds. I can at least admit that. Zealot for me is decent just a melee monster as well as Ogryn. Heâs okay for sure. I do like how agile he is with his speed which is nice feature. I do love Ogryn, but since all those nerfs, Iâve honestly have been playing other classes more sadly. I do hope eventually theyâll do something more with him. Might be awhile. 
Weâve run these tests and Batter becomes less powerful, the stronger a weapon becomes. Pickaxes and Shovels with Brutal Momentum are so killy that they deal way less Bleed damage during a mission than e.g. the Shield, which relies on Batter to deal a huge portion of its total damage.
If weapon damage = high, Batter damage = low.
(Solution: buff Ogryn weapon damage outside of Pickaxes and Shovel heavies)
I still think his biggest issue is just how badly he gets hindered by ranged enemies. Other classes can take cover, but thats usually not an option for ogryn players.
Glad Iâm not the only one who thinks this. Ogryns are supposed to be the strongest and toughest soldiers. Fatshark failed at that. Needing help when puny dogs pins down a 10 foot tall beast, as well as the net from the trapper. There should be an ability for an ogryn to push dogs off him and break out the net. Now, their start health is higher than the other three classes but ironically their TOUGHNESS is the lowest. It just doesnt make sense. They should have the highest toughness as well as the highest health without any use of curios and blessings. I dont feel like an Ogryn. Could be the reason why Ogryn is the least played class. The only time Iâm having a full ogryn squad is when I play with my friends who are also ogryn mains. They certainly need a buff.
Crunch needs to be able to compete with batter, 120% would be more reasonable with stacking like thrust
To be fair to us this was a melee only challenge specifically. Add guns and we were clearing it within the first one or two tries.
However everything you said here is exactly correct. The skill floor on Ogryn is quite high to just enter the party and not be a drag on the team and then the skill cieling, the maximum potential effectiveness in simpler terms, is obviously weaker. Its glaringly obvious. Heâs especially bi-polar in the toughness and safety department and tends to go from super tough to dead in a blink. Plus his tree is a snooze with almost no optioms and one set of core toughness talents.
Yes! Bring back cleavers I wanna stab snivellers with my massive knife!
Iâm curious how the class with no built-in cheese has the lowest ceiling? You get as far as good you are with.
To me itâs quite the opposite, zealot being by far the lowest ceiling with safety net upon safety net upon safety net just to save you from your own mistakes.
Before anyone starts foaming their mouth at me, zealot is my most played by quite a margin, I love zealot. Doesnât change the fact any ape can pilot it and find success with.
Low skill ceiling is often equated with low APM, which Ogryn suffers from. You are often trapped into a single input loop by the Ogryn chassis, with slow wield times and long animations, compounded with onedimensional skill builds that do not reward weaving melee/ranged/blitz together.
There is a wholly different, more macro-level skill expression to playing Ogryn, because heâs worse at out-microing the game and worse at out-cheesing the game.
Thatâs the beauty of it to me, the slow ogryn dance of death. APM has absolutely nothing to do with skill ceiling, knowing when to press which button with little room for error does.
You can either get good at it and become a wrecking ball, or spend your time complaining instead.
Itâs nice if you can appreciate it, but I also understand the general frustration with feeling like you could do so much more if you were playing another class.
As to be expected given his size alone. Make him any tankier and seasoned ogryn players will fall asleep at the wheel out of boredom.
Some classes are just not meant to be beginner friendly, nothign wrong with that.
Not just beginners. A lot of seasoned Tide players dislike how limited his action economy is, it feels restraining.
Steady Grip + the Krourk Heavy Stubber is the best thing to happen to Ogryn since shield block taunt as far as dealing with ranged enemies goes.
PS: Fatshark please buff Ogrynâs guns, for the good Emperor, please buff all of the Ogrynâs gunsđ(except Kickback, itâs fine). Something has to give with these clunky weapons that deal way too little damage and have zero ammo efficiency.
Fine,
some classes are just not meant for everyone, nothing wrong with that.
Ogryn not weak! Ogryn strong! So strong I have two, but only two as that is highest I can count!
