Cleavers 
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I actually thought that I was the only one thinking that Gunlugger is pretty bad (Because nobody else plays Ogryn in my friend group)
You know, itâs pretty interesting that even without others to influence my opinion on Ogryn, we still come to the same conclusion.
Oh, and about the thread, Ogryn is not weak but he is weaker than anybody else, also his builds are pretty limited in variety (Heavy spam or Eat all the ammo spam)
Hereâs the question to people, what are your thoughts on Rumbler, is it better than Kickback?
(Some people on Discord said that for Havoc40 Rumbler + Taunt is the best, I disagree or I am just bad with Rumbler and Taunt)
(Iâve been running around with Taunt to check if it actually works on Bosses, so far it feels like it is)
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Rumbler is okay, but itâs no Quake nade launcher.
I know what build theyâre talking about: taunt, shoot, evaporate everything around you. Is fun but no way Iâd consider that better than kickback.
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nah, i cant think if a single scenario where the hitscan security of the kickback would be matched by the rumbler in regards to precision, range, damage or crowd deleting.
all it does is stick to certain enemies (so they cant walk away from the blast, which happens a lot a the speed the game progresses otherwise) and blasts themselves dont guarantee every hit horde member be killed rather than tossed over.
now under specific requirements (balanced premade) one could enable the rumbler ogryn to go ham, then again the situation would be tailor made that could be solved faster with less stagingâŚ
iâd see a bonus in havoc 40 turtle tactics âschild&reinwichsenâ and again the team sets the stage for that as well.
bonus part: if it MUST be something else, id go for ripper 5, at least i can burst a mutant or rager up close, can open a crusher and get that sniper in the second hive city window.
at a lot more ammo wasted for less dps, but better allrounder than rumbler in my opinion
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Heavy stubbers are by far your best choice for high havoc.
Good damage, pinpoint, good ammo econ, uses steady grip.
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Ogryn is good so long as you bring the literally 2-3 meta weapon options. The moment you deviate you are objectively running a character that is worse at everything for no real reason. The other weps with batter are still good enough to carry auric maelstrom, but doing Havocs with weapons that arent the pickaxe or shield is just pure torture because they simply donât cleave enough and donât do enough damage.
Most of it is totally nonsensical too. Youâd think an extremely slow and immobile club that cleaves through 5 poxwalkers would be alright for armor damage, right? Nope, 8 heavies to kill a crusher. Without batter itâs something like 14 heavy attacks lol. Maulers similar, too. Wonât stagger either. Non melee build vets, zealots and psykers still get to kill those with 2-3 attacks with a multitude of builds and keep them stunned.
Anyways my point was that the polarity of opinions on Ogryn stems from this. He has one meta build that is on par on Havoc and arguably is one of the stronger things on Havoc, but otherwise his stuff is all horrible on there and arguably is ass even on Auric, merely carried by bleed or fire stacks. Imagine if literally every Vet loadout except DS4 + shredder grenades was unusably bad, people would also be torn between calling vet OP and doggyshit.
In general I think
is spot on though. Ogryn was OP at one point (post patch 13) and got nerfed hard as a result. They should take the other classes down a notch too, most of the stuff thatâs being used is just straight up so OP itâs bad for the game. Gold toughness spam and ability spam is one of those things that are just absolutely brain damaged gameplay. They have to nerf those things and then diversify the builds, especially for Ogryn, but other classes also donât really have a ton of variety
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I agree, but I want to see changes to Ogryn too. The lack of build variety and basically being punished for using light attacks makes Ogryn a drag to play.
So donât?
Heavy attack IS ogryn, simple as. This nonstop crying about trying to make him something he was never meant to be is getting pretty dumb at this point.
You have three classes for to spam lights with, let that be enough. Making ogryn another oversized generic human would be dull af.
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I think youâre missing the important factor that Ogryn used to be playable and one of the stronger classes pre patch 13 and he wasnât forced to heavy constantly and had broader weapon variety as a result. His weapons also fell back because they suffered the most from the P13 HP value changes (since Ogryn is the only class that doesnât get free huge damage, attackspeed, impact or cleave mods on his tree and his weps didnt get touched up other than the shield) and instead he now fully relies on batter to do any damage whatsoever unless heâs using a pickaxe or shield with the correct breakpoints fulfilled. And on H40, his damage is still 100% and fully reliant on applying those bleed stacks via heavies.
His heavies still were good and had a place then, the gameplay just wasnât as one dimensional because he wasnât forced at all times to do them, which means weps with worse heavies had their uses. Batter, new toughness talent balance (the game and each class is now balanced around restoring like 500% toughness per second so must constantly heavy to keep up) and 90% of his arsenal being underpowered since P13 is to blame.
In other words, ogryn has literally less variety now than he did at launch, with the exception of like the heavy stubber and the pickaxe being a thing. It should be self evident that this is a game design issue and things need to be brought level. Heavy spam setups already existed then, but now theyâre all that exists.
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Push more Torb, I have a blast being a bigman.
You mean BB light spam, cuz clubs and shovels did very little dmg? Iâd hardly call that âbuild varietyâ. It had close to no support from talents, solely relying on the sheer power of the equipped weapons, while your stagger was bad and your cleave was bad. There was very little ogryn about it, it worked because enemies had lower HP pools, and the density was much lower. Why donât we bring back pre13 vet while at it, cuz that was the balancest itâs ever been (/s). Rose tinted glasses 'n all that.
Following that logic, light spam with FNP has more synergy than anything pre13!
I mean we have the same thing now except BB light spam is also gone so now we just have the heavy spam anymore. I fail to see how that was good for variety.
Was less of an issue pre P13 because as I said, all HP values got bumped up so a lot of weapons had way better breakpoints then than they do now. An ogryn club was actually one of the best crusher killers in the game at the time, fact. Same with the shovel, it was a bit worse but compensated by having good horde clear. Same with can opener ripperguns which complemented BB blender builds.
All dead metas because breakpoints changed to make them useless garbage. Ogryn literally had better more interesting balance Pre P13. All he gained was a gimmicky ranged build that kills everything via fire stacks and batter, which breaks weapon balance in two because a weapons usefulness is now almost solely determined by bleed stack delivery mechanism.
You keep saying Ogryn is the heavy attack class, but itâs actually the DoT class. Why the hell is the STRmaxxed ogre character the damage over time class that bleeds things out and sets them on fire? Nobody knows. Itâs terrible thematically
Whataboutism isnt about to solve any problem. I never said pre 13 vet wasnât OP doggyshit too. It obviously also had trash variety for Ogryn melee. It just had more than now lol.
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Breakpoints matter little to none with DT density, they never have compared to VT. Bleeds are there mostly for the DR, and to enable zealots, not dmg. The highest you could ever go was around 30% with thunder skull club3b before self stacking on dots got fixed. Nowadays a shield will do what, 20% tops? Not what I call a defining factor.
Pre13 ogryn had about 2 builds, BB GG light spam, and club1 heavy spam, with the VAST majority running the first one. More variety my ass.
Not much else to say other than âyou are wrongâ, but you either already know that, or nothing will change your mind.
It does matter when it comes to explaining why the club now takes like 8 hits to kill a crusher instead of like 4. Very relevant here. And they do matter HEAVILY for stagger, which Ogryns weapons also all lost breakpoints on with the enemy stagger value increase. His shovel punch doesnât even bother crushers anymore. The heavy overheads dont really stagger things anymore either. Those weapons have skullcrusher btw, so itâs doubly relevant that they lost out on stagger hard.
Nah. Go ahead, show me how a bully club or mk1 shovel performs without batter lmao. It worked pre-13. Thatâs because of breakpoints changing and being balanced around batter instead. Itâs literally the only thing keeping his club from needing to hit a mauler 7 times with an overhead heavy to kill it. Thatâs how the club performs without batter. You cannot possibly think this is normal or desirable balance. The ânothing will change your mindâ thing may be pure projection on your behalf.
Your entire premise is just false. Power levels went up and only batter can keep up. As a result, Ogryns variety narrowed. You can use other weps on aurics, but on H40 it becomes apparent that only shield/pickaxe can keep up because they hit 30+ enemies and apply batter to each of them (along with being the only weps with acceptable stagger values for an Ogryn)
PS:
This is still the case except the light spam build is gone and you got a half baked ranged tree instead thatâs only good if you mash 32 fire stacks onto stuff with a rapid fire wep. Melee wise he only has the heavy spam now. You just use the pickaxe/shield instead of the club because the delivery mechanism is better for batter. At least the club had you pick between the light heavy horde clapper combo sometimes so it had a little bit more depth.
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Or, I also like playing Ogryn and would like to see more dynamics. This is a forum where others and myself can ask for that.
Doesnât have to be.
Get this. We can get more build variety. You stick to heavy attack and the same weapon all the time. Everybody is happy.
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If you donât like heavy attacking, you donât like playing ogryn.
Stop trying to make him something never meant to be, you have 75% of the roster well suited for light spam.
Canât have it all, such is life.
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All these ogryn bad threads come down to the same thing.
âIâm used to facerolling everything with easy to use overtuned human weapons and their magic make my problems go away button. Canât do the same on ogryn, ogryn sucks buff pleaseâ, when a well-piloted one is an ever-wrecking force of nature.
Not saying ogryn is perfect, but the very root of most complainerâs problems lies within their inability to play ogryn proper, or the acceptance that he plays different than just an oversized human.
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No, thereâs been many well articulated arguments. You just choose to ignore them. And instead make up strawman arguments.
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Iâm not going to fault you for being annoyed by comments asking for disablers to be disabled, but, like, floorâs open if you have an opinion on where ogryn needs improvement.
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I donât even disagree with you on principle, Ogryn is the class without a crutch and as such is the only one with a significant skill floor, but that doesnât really mean he doesnât need major rebalancing for him to have interesting build variety.
I also want the skill floor to be maintained, but youâre equating the request for more horizontal balance with âpeople want him to be easy and braindead like shout spam vetâ which Iâm sure many people do but itâs not a catchall argument for all people asking for Ogryn balance improvements.
Like donât mistake the people who screech because heâs not literally damage and disabler immune for the people who actually want him to have more than one loadout. Statements like
are stupid. Yeah he could have more build variety lol. Nothing stands in the way of it. The last patch added a precision sniper gun to him and itâs fun and actually opens up different Ogryn playstyles. Did we lose anything because of that?
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