This guy gets it.
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Nothing to add. Great breakdown.
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Bruiser nrrf is bigger than you think, elites often die in very quick succession, right now you get value from each of those deaths, with the change at least 50% of it will be lost.
Thatâs not correct, first of all the only good DR passive in that row is Pumped up, as is the only reliable one.
Strongmann uptime is mediocre, for mediocre DR. The one you selected itâs also a joke since 1) It works only on ranged damage 2) it actually start working after getting hit and at this point at least I try to dodge.
Getting the better passive opinion makes me require one extra point to get the +15 toughness.
So basically or I trade DR for +25 toughness or a talent point to get both.
It is still a buff but not as massive as you make it.
Melee kill toughness replenishment 20% increase translates in 1% more toughness per kill, that scales quite decently actually when you kill around 4/5 poxes per hit but itâs counterbalanced by the ânerfâ to the best defence heavy toughness replenishment. But since now light attacks also replenish toughness letâs say the net gain of this 5% toughness replenishment.
Taunt buffs are slightly offset by bruiser nerfs but at least now there is a reason to pick Go Again
Also not correct, with nodes before you were getting total +20% heavy damage +5% lights now you get +10% but applying also to lights, so with payback time/ soften them up you only gain 5% damage from heavy and 10% light and lose 5% rending. I would hardly call it massive buff.
Incorrect, you donât gain 10% strength on weakspot, you deal 10% more weakspot damage (to not confuse with weakspot damage bonus) itâs a good talent but not as good as you say.
Personally Iâm skeptical on the value brought by no Hurting friends, Iâd much rather having complete control over the buffs activation.
Even if what you are summarizing where all true we are far from:
There are buffs, itâs undeniable but they are far from massive.
All you have proven is that now ogrin builds can be more customised to our taste.
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Iâm noticing a theme here of you saying âItâs not correctâ only to then go on to share your arbitrary opinion on why the buff isnât significant enough. So itâs correct that itâs a buff, but you disagree itâs big. Okay, I did forget about minor things like how they reshuffled the melee damage and heavy melee damage nodes. Itâs still a buff for the same points. I guess thereâs no reconciling opinions here.
There is however here:
Read it again, I made the same mistake. You gain 10% strength on weakspot. Hank confirmed it
Itâs downright delusional to summarize gaining significant DR, significant damage%, significant toughness, and literally 22.5% strength this way. Again, 22.5% strength is basically headtaker. That alone is more than any other class gets on its tree to my knowledge. Iâd literally consider headtaker the best blessing in the game, more or less. Now you get that much strength for just playing the game normally. This will also exponentially scale all your other damage buffs because of how the calcs work.
Youâve also elected to ignore the gain of 80% impact/96% cleave. Iâm not sure if this is an issue of you not understanding what the impact of this will be, but 25% impact is enough to stunlock and eventually knock a crusher to the floor with the shield, and ogryns can actually get this now. 105% impact will likely be enough to stunlock bosses again unless they specifically change tresholds to prevent it. Thrust + crunch will actually result in a pretty disgustingly massive stagger value. If you get creative with certain weapons and blessings, I think youâll be able to stunlock multiple crushers (and everything weaker) while spamming heavy attacks at them to kill them. By the way, strength will also exponentially increase impact.
Also, donât bother replying with something like âokay but 22.5% strength isnât really massiveâ. Take headtaker off your pickaxe then bud. We both know no sane individual thinks thatâs a small benefit. As for the bruiser nerf, I can only reiterate it deserves the nerf, as did survivalist, zealot CDR, and so do psykinetics aura and tactical awareness. To me, saying âbut they still have itâ is not an argument. The game needs to be balanced, not a competition in who can be the most OP (even though I believe ogryn might be winning that anyway)
As already said, Hank confirmed that this is exactly what it says it is. +10% strength.
Itâs real good.
Actually sorry to be a bother, but @Hank_jw do you know if it procs the strength on the weak spot hit itself, or only boosts subsequent enemies hit in the swing? Iâm assuming the former since it would be pretty bad otherwise.
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Itâs not just the thresholds, itâs the immunity times as well , so no stunlocking ever again unless those change.
e.g.
P.S. Thereâs also a stagger_category from weapons and stuff at play, a couple of weapons have a stagger_category = âexplosionâ
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Yeah although I dont know what the actual mechanics here are I know that I can actually still stunlock a chaos spawn right now with a shovel and punches and 25% impact aswell as thrust. I think few people are aware of that cause it requires good timing and a specific combo and setup. Same with demonhosts, just need to know how to set up the stunlock.
I suspect itâll become easy to do by just having big enough impact values for the timing and setup to not matter much anymore
Its from the stagger category of the move, if they donât enable that explosive flag on the eg. knife punch I doubt weâll see any changes that stagger bosses with anything not already seen. Though slapping needs to come back, if the shovel punch jives. It is way funnier, and making them spin around instead of going straight back makes the stun locking more enjoyable too. Besides the daemon.
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^ I was about to chime in but you beat me too as I was looking up the code snippet, search for:
stagger_category = "explosion"
and for spawn:
stagger_immune_times = {
[stagger_types.light] = 1.5,
[stagger_types.medium] = 1.5,
[stagger_types.heavy] = 1.5,
[stagger_types.light_ranged] = 0.5,
**[stagger_types.explosion] = 1.5**
},
stagger_thresholds = {
[stagger_types.light] = -1,
[stagger_types.medium] = -1,
[stagger_types.heavy] = -1,
**[stagger_types.explosion] = 100,**
[stagger_types.light_ranged] = -1,
[stagger_types.killshot] = -1,
[stagger_types.sticky] = -1
},
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I guess the only thing Iâm left ocnfused about is why the timing seems to matter then. Have to set it up with a charge first in the case of DH, too.
In any case 105%-135% impact & over +100% strength will let you probably floor crushers with a knife heavy, possibly even with some light attacks on some weps, so thereâs that benefit still anyway
Did you forget where this all started? You are advocating for massive buffs but failing to dimostrare, + 5% here +10% there is a far cry from massive.
I donât see a duration on that talent, so, based on what I understood from the video made by Hank explaining how the new passives works, if my weapon total weakspot damage is 100, then I deal 110.
This doesnât apply to subsequent hits that donât hit a weakspot.
If it was easy to trigger like headtakr maybe but since half of it works only on headshot and the other half depends on me or some teammates getting hit constantly every 5 sec I say nah.
Unless @Hank_jw or whoever from fatshark comes here to tell us, description is wrong, it means actually 10% Power for 5 sec on headshot.
I donât have headtaker on my pickaxe, I have slaughterer.
About the impact you got already replied, fatshark said no more stunlock since a while ago, and itâs disingenuous to say with adjusting you can get up to xxxx%, adjusting means you give up something else. Points stay 30.
Ogryn the strongest character in darktide, you heard it here first folks!
Pretty sure this is a bug, the charge part. Feel free to report it lol.
The stagger power after the charge seems to linger and is boosting the explosion stagger of the uppercut well past the threshold, it doesnât seem to be resetting as it should.
I think thatâs the 1.5s immunity time I quoted, if you do it too fast the bug seems to stop working. I could be wrong on something as I donât feel like diving deeper than that.
P.S. You can do it with white shovel looks like, no thrust required. Slam to charge talent seems enough to keep the bugged staggers going.
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Youâre ignoring the parts where you can drop worthless pathing nodes like furious + coherency regen for even bigger benefits. You didnât pick those nodes because you want them, you did because you had to. For the sake of honesty and comparing the EXACT build, I took them into the new build 1:1, but in any realistic situation anyone would just drop those for another damage buff, 80% impact, more DR, etc.
Although itâs fine if you would rather have 50% coherency regen than 80% impact. Itâs just not the fault of the tree if you do that, thatâs all.
Thatâs a rough approximation of how strength works but yes. This is notably far better than how weakspot damage works, which only increases the damage bonus, not the total. It also increases cleave and stagger. It also increases damage by more the more damage% buffs you have.
As for the second part, yes, âstrength on weakspot hitâ only functions when you hit a weakspot. Youâd have to actively try to not hit something in the head as Ogryn anyway.
If you or your teammates arenât taking toughness damage 5 times per 10 seconds youâre playing sedition or you donât need damage anyway. It probably counts blocking hits too for what itâs worth, but Iâm not sure about that, just going off how other talents like this work. Iâd consider Headtaker to be more âdifficultâ to set up but these are both trivial conditions.
Do you use T1 or T4? Letâs see your T1 slaughterer since you dont think 22.5% strength matters anyway.
As I said, adjusting in this specific case means giving up 50% coherency regen. Stay honest. Your accusations of me being disingenuous are fully projected.
Whatâs your retort to how Ogryn will likely be able to stunlock crushers with any melee wep now? Is that not a huge buff? Stunlock ragers with light attacks not a buff?
He has been for more time than he has not.
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On this point though, wouldnât you likely want the âGreat Cleaverâ cleave node on Heavy Hitter (for those light weaps)? Itâs mutually exclusive with Impactful, sadly. Will their innate cleave be enough?
Itâs good too but I honestly donât see more cleave for already very good at cleaving cleavers outweighing more impact in any âbadâ scenario. Maybe if you play shield and already stunlock crushers⌠but shield also doesnât really need cleave, unless light spam is somehow gonna come out on top of heavies with new batter and the new stagger damage nodes, which honestly could be. Maybe on H40 you generally want to go heavier on cleave to make more melee weps viable for those thick hordes, also.
Iâm not really sure what effect itâs gonna have on the less cleave-y weps, maybe itâll make bully clubs a bit more bearable for horde clear, and maybe with crunch + slam alone you already hit good enough stagger breakpoints on some of the more staggery weps.
Also, something I completely havenât been thinking about is how with enough stagger you can actually just force bulwarks open by hitting the shield. This will probably also make impact come out on top
The cleave bonus might be enough to cleave armored enemies with some setups⌠We will have to wait and see on that though.
to my understanding carapace armor (or is it just crushers?) have a sort of override in them that doesnât let you cleave them unless your attack allows it specifically. Like itâs literally called âignore_armor_aborts_attackâ in the files. I donât know if you can actually just stack on so much cleave it would cleave crushers but I had the impression you canât.
Coincidentally I think unstoppable force + crunch + thrust + the impact nodes will be a really strong combo for the MK6 knife and might make it the cookiecutter meta
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I know that a REALLY old ogryn talent used to give infinite cleave to fully charged heavies and you could cleave crushers with that, but i think that is literally the only way to cleave them. Cleaving ragers and flak enemies is still fair game though.
Carapace aborts attacks minus the exceptions as you said, Sunder and the like.
You mean the blessing?
Still there, nobody takes it for obvious reasons (like crunch)
no it was a talent from the original talent âtreeâ that came out with the beta and 1.0 launch. Back when you had to chose 1 of 3 options every 5 player levels. It was really niche since it functioned like Crunch! does now before the update drops, but with no actual damage bonus just infinite cleave.
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