Shields would become directly worse if beastmen were nerfed or enemies have less hp regardless of the stagger system. Fix slotting so shields aren’t more valuable because of hyper stacking other weapons simply can’t deal with in an enclosed space? They’re weaker. Reduce health such that other weapons can start cleaning high density hordes? They’re weaker. The weapon itself is only an enabler for other careers.
Meanwhile on the other side of this
1H axe and 2H axe were better
Now they’re not. Directly attributed that the increased amount of hp and the ways to circumvent that are directly related to the implementation of the stagger system. Secondly the stagger system is not ONLY the stagger changes or the damage done. It’s the restructuring of the systems of the game to implement it.
And every single reduction of any of these values is a comparative massive buff to this new system that all of our damage is now backended in. Pushing and various high stagger are necessary now where they weren’t before because hordes have more risk spots and various higher risk factors to engage with them. You should try and engage a beast horde with a 1h axe but you’re going to get stuffed. Stagger provides more damage to compensate the overall inflation of values.
So let’s do these in order:
- Why are people pushing?
Horde Management. Slots, health, range, dodge, hp, and of course stagger (but less so with the reduction of resistances to it) all combine to make for more dangerous encounters. - Why do they hate the system?
Slows maps down. Introduces risk factors outside of control for circumventing it. Before I absconded my wins started becoming consistent again because I put a shield on and started spamming push. What an appalling scenario. - Why do they hate beastmen
Low cleave, high range, arrow attacks that interrupt actions, push, and stun, a flag which destruction almost only affects you the player, and various other messes like hyper stacking in the new slot system as well as reintroduction of bugs like thin air spawns and infinite horde music - Why do they find this new game harder
My my. Let’s crack open another early morning beer and start reflecting shall we!
Oh boy do we have a metric truck load to talk about this at one So quit reading right here for some safety to sanity. For reference this will be entirely focused on how Cata is, though I guess a lot of these factors still apply to legend.
First: Here are my thoughts on the 4Ss of constructive skilled growth.
[The 4 S's: Sight, Sound, Spawns, and Specials]
TL;DR
The conditions between enemies, elites, bosses, and specials should always be presented with a set of values that allow for clean dispatch with necessary identification and a healthy dose of on demand reaction speed. We’ll only touch upon one here.
Sight
Essentially the pillar of skilled play. Reaction requires identification, right?
-
In a game I had a mauler, two marauders, and four berserkers climb a ledge
Well what’s the problem with that?
I only SAW a mauler and a marauder climb up that ledge because they were hyper stacked into each other. These situations happened before at almost an extremely rare occurrence. Now it’s basically the rule for all ledge and drop pathing interactions to occupy at least an entire host of enemies. Removing the ability to even properly assess what is or is not a viable threat that requires immediate attention reduces skilled growth and forces the same response regardless of the reality of the components of those drops -
The Globaider is throwing!
Business as usual right?
Wrong. Let’s explain something we’ll be talking about at length later. The existence of a no-win scenario. You see, if you hear the sound of a globaider coming in 1.6 you had a reasonably high chance to do a few things. Identify the direction it was coming, see it’s approach (depending on level) and finally, formulate and execute a plan for dispatch before the worst case occurs (gassed out of your defensive position). There is exactly 0 (zero) preventive measures a person can reasonably assume to stop a globadier tossing over two buildings and outside of line of sight. You know the general direction so if you’re playing two specific jobs in the game and your specials are up you maybe can respond. But this then creates a scenario which staggers expression because you must then ONLY save these tools which are designed for frequent use entirely around a single enemy. -
Beasts! I love these goatmen!
You know what. For a few changes so would I
- Being attacked outside of your range with spears outside of possible identification conventions is not the exception, it’s the rule. It’s a rule so far engrained now that every single SPARE ACTION has to be dodging to avoid taking an attack you can’t see. This is bad. It provides no expression and no room for growth.
So why is this important
Easy my friend. Things are harder to see. Which means incidental hits outside of specific approach philosophies (being to just blindly push into a wave with a shield with increase range and strength or gunning things down with the already good in 1.6 throwers) is disproportionately harder to avoid. Tools aren’t available for skilled growth.
- Hunger in the Dark has always been a delightful little nightmare. What’s not delightful is that huddling around the cart is an exceptionally bad idea during beasthordes due to their range. Never you mind problems with flags going down SOMEWHERE you won’t be able to see
What else?
3)Being attacked through walls. When holding a choke point. Is the single largest reason I stopped playing this game. This should never happen. This has exactly 0 tools for visual identification or prevention.
These are fine you say?
If the game is now designed around taking guaranteed damage, the game is no longer about skilled expression
TLDR: Player growth requires effective visual tools. These have been reduced or eliminated.
And at the risk of chopping this post up more than I already have. A special mention to Rattling Gunners, who can rush you down now (good) but without appropriate levels of sound identification, sometimes even being silent as the open up on your doorway (bad)
Edit: Also special mention to how quick downed players die now or garbage like every elite/special on the planet just laser targeting their body. Oh you fell down and there’s a globadier anywhere on the map AND we’ve got two grims? I guess you’re just dead now buddy! Though to be fair if their intention was for people to run revival speed, it certainly has worked. Because that’s exactly what I run to take care of the damage tax I now have to pay during my maps to pick somebody up when I’m FK or IB
In conclusion:
- Hordes are harder to deal with because visuals are all jacked up
- Hits can happen outside of basic rules
- Spawns and sounds are thrown out of whack, including the backstab sound warning.
- Stronger tanker hordes give less clearing room for coordinated efficient dispatching of a correctly identified and prepared for special(s) or elite(s)
- No-prevention no-win conditions exist in dealing with problems before they become a problem.
The stagger system is icing on the cake of a cascading array of bad decisions and resurfacing bugs. It’s impossible to talk about the stagger system as an isolated occurrence when that term involves ALL of the changes that loop back into it. The most optimal method of play for consistent clears is the most boring one in this game now. This is a bad thing. Not to mention what that means for balance.
Nobody. And I mean nobody. Has fun while they sit behind me playing “kill the stragglers” while I drakegun hallways from map start to map finish. And I don’t have fun when I play “spam the knockdowns” during bad engagement locations and boss/elite interactions. This isn’t’ interesting. It isn’t engaging. And it’s not even teamwork. It’s a mess.