But that’s just your opinion though right? I’m not as interested in a tech adept tbh. And does a tech adept fit into the lore of DT, being a criminal who’s rescued? Genuine question as it doesn’t feel as well fit as a Ratling.
Also
We play as a crack squad of 4 commandos-by-any-other-name, airdropped into a remote LZ to infiltrate enemy lines, often under the cloak of darkness and with sky jamming. Covert is precisely what we do! But nevertheless, Ratlings are able to hold and fire other weapons just fine right? They’re just snipers because they’re such damn good shots and it keeps them away from the others because they’re such devious criminals whom no one trusts…though do correct me if any of that is wrong but I’m sure that’s what ive read. I’ve also read that they are just as strong as humans but have smaller stature purely from the stronger gravity and environment of their homeworld.
I usually like your forum posts btw so I wish we had your mind to think on ways a Ratling could be cool instead of only ways they would not be. I get that you don’t want to jeopardise your favoured choice of new archetype to be picked if it came to that but I’d happily think of tech adept mechanics even if I’d much prefer a Ratling. I’m sure FS have already pinned down next potential archetype anyway. I’d be gobsmacked if they didn’t have a working prototype on a shelf at the very least.
In the grim, dark future absolutely anyone can be arrested and charged with absolutely anything, especially when the Inquisition is involved. But even in a more ordinary situation, it would not be unusual for a planetary or even local government to arrest an especially criminal tech-priest or lesser adherent of the Machine God and extradite them over to the AdMech’s authority, especially if no other AdMech authority were present. Given the offense was sufficient in their eyes, of course. But they can well understand the need to detain a disruptive individual, and they are not known for being soft on their subjects either.
I suspect a frivolous arrest, or an attempt to carry out the sentencing without permission would be frowned upon, but to just apprehend a criminal and send him along to his jurisdiction for justice? Quite reasonable, especially if he was also in violation of any applicable AdMech code at the time.
Yes, they are (with some exceptions) able to use normal rifles just fine, but the problem is that they aren’t introducing new things.
Like my Sister Reject idea is ill suited, I’ve known that since before launch, but not due to lore, nor due to the abilities, but the lack of exclusive weapons that it can introduce.
But it still could introduce new weapons, new abilities, and new exclusive and untapped cosmetics.
Creating a new archetype, to then just have it work with the same weapons that the current ones do is quite wasteful, and would just create cost for practically nothing.
I’d argue that a Xenos archetype (Probably an Eldar, to sate the Elf fans and finally throw a bone at Eldar players) is gameplay wise the best, introduce new weapons that are out of the Codexes that we’re using, new personalities that are fully outside the Imperium, new reaction to the way the Imperium work.
And Tech Adept is able to lightly tap into that, because they are in the lore a sub-faction, or vassal of the Imperium.
Now can an Admech personnel end up in the Penal System of the Imperium, yesn’t.
Take Tech Priest and higher, it’s an outright no, they’re pledged to the Omnissiah and are bound to its laws.
Take a Skitarii, it’s and outright no, they would be stripped for parts.
Take Tech Menials, Adepts, Serfs and Artisans, as well as Technica Guilders and their workers, and there you end up with personnels that are subservient to the Adeptus Mechanicus, think like them, and if they managed to rise in the rank, would join, and would be much more inclined and learned (so trusted) to use Admech weaponry, even with the drawback that come from them (Severe and painful augments, weapons causing as much harm to yourself as to the target…)
I don’t prefer Tech Adepts, I’m on the Sister side.
But I’m able to make a Tech Adept tree, as well as pick 13 new melee weapons (With possible lore pairings, 1 shield, and 11 ranged weapons (with some having possible pairings)
I’m not able to do that with a Ratling.
Ok cool, that’s fair enough. Thank for the info! 
I’m listening to loads of the audiobooks but obviously it’s so vast that there is a lot I’m still learning. Most of them seem to focus on SM which is cool but also a bit of a shame. I’m hoping to find some that delve into the xenos more, or at least interactions with xenos more.
That would be amazing. Any time I’ve suggested the same, I get pounced on for lOrE bReAkInG lol. I’d very much enjoy seeing a playable Eldar. Honestly I think people get too caught up in lore when really a good writer could explain most things in a satisfactory way. I wish people would put fun ahead of all else. After all if something new is approved by GW then it’s lore. It doesn’t need to have already happened to be viable.
But a Ratling would be more than just a few new weapons (although I imagine hmit could have some very unique weapons). Give a few designers a couple of weeks in a room and they’d conjure a treasure trove of fun halfing gameplay mechanics based on the character traits of a Ratling. Many suggestions in the previous thread would just be the start.
Again, give the room to a few designers and it wouldn’t be an issue. I’d imagine the 3 class branches for Ratling could be Sapper/Demolitions expert, trapper/poison expert, and naturally stealth/ranged/scout. Oodles of inspiration to think of ways they could be used.
It’s the form factor that truly allows for thinking outside the box (or under the box!) that gets me excited by Ratling. An Ogryn feels very different and in many cases the Vet and Zealot feel very samey when choosing the abilities I feel are the best. Form factor plays a big part in this I’m sure, and uniqueness of a Ratling would force a truly different style of play. Just because we’ve not sat down and plotted that out yet, doesn’t mean it’s unviable or unfun.
I’d bet my bottom dollar that if we had 4 human archetypes right now and someone suggested an Ogryn then forum folk would jump to dismissal straight away saying things like “it would be too OP” and “it would make the other classes obsolete and would get in the way” etc. what I’m getting at is that people can often be too quick to dismiss without truly giving the idea some TLC.
In an ideal world we’d get the Ratling, Tech Adept, Eldar and Sister…how cool would that be?! A truly mixed bag every mission. It would certainly spice up all the stale maps.
I don’t want them in Darktide. At all.
I’d rather see new maps, enemies, locations, weapons and maybe an Admech class.
Ratlings basically overlap with Veterans anyway, and they completely failed to get the Veteran right as it is. If the kit my class should have, ended up on some 3 foot high, overeating, lecherous Danny DeVito clone, I’d be pretty annoyed.
You’d not be forced to play as one. And doesn’t Ogryn and Zealot have a fair bit of overlap? Hell, even vet and Zealot have loads of overlap.
The form factor and character style is the real hook imo.
Might not be your cup of tea but people seem fine playing as a dwarf in vt2 so I don’t think form factor would be an issue tbh.
I too want loads more maps, weapons, enemies etc and in now way am I saying I’d prioritise a new archetype over those…but at games studios things can bubble in the background and we should be able to bluesky-dream on the forums.
strawman’ing because there’s nothing there? i never said any of that, yet you apply any previous criticism to me. rather weak.
the implied context is that its easy to dream, but hard to implement
so if they were to actually do what you want, it wouldn’t work in many areas such as cover being too low (we saw this at pre launch when people complained that they can’t adjust height and now cover doesn’t line up) same goes for all vertical gameplay, stairs angle for example if your POV is smaller they look steeper and enemies at the top can see you with exposing less of their body, and potentially shoot you, and if you make his hitbox smaller so enemies need to expose themselves more you risk pathing problems and other things like potentially massive deviance in Dmg received from stray fire
So yes, the implications are actually massive and much, much greater than make a dude small and done.
My comment was meant to be a jab at the notion that’s a simple matter, which it isn’t
(I can see how much one has to read into it tho, apologies)
i personally think the cons outweigh the pros, as it’s a lot of work for a class I don’t particularly want, and other ideas would be way easier to actually implement and more fun.
You can disagree on the fun part, but the reality is that you underestimate the complexity of what you’re asking. (not saying its impossible)
With all due respect, save your patronising tone. I’ve got roughly 20 years experience working in various games studios of various sizes in various countries and doing various roles. I hate mentioning that but it boils my blood to hear people say to other people on these forums “it’s too much work” or “you don’t understand the complexities”. Erm, yeah I do and even if I didn’t, it has zero bearing on the argument or proposal of any new content whatsoever. No one here has the rights or insight of the studio to make such comments.
It’s content that would require a lot of work. Who said otherwise? It’s a game studio, working on the game is kinda what they do full time. Making DT isn’t something they get to do in-between jobs so let’s once and for all put this absolutely ridiculous rote learned “it’s too much work” nonsense to bed. It smacks of ego, as if someone is larping as a FS Producer, pretending to know the intimacies of the studio finances and their workflow pipeline.
Would it be hard to implement? Define ‘hard’.
I’d say a team like FS who’ve delivered one of the best coop experiences I’ve ever played, with some of the most deceptively and deviously intricate mechanics and balancing, are likely very damn capable of adding any new archetype as they please. They seem to excel at that aspect over things like UI and lobby mechanics so they’d be in their comfort zone.
Besides, they will have a set of uniform rules to movement, jump height, environmental conditions, cover (as if there is any in DT) and all other mechanics. They will have a playbook that they can slot a new set of rules into and play sandbox/whitebox until it fits and feels good. If it feels good within the core pillars/mechanics then it should feel good in all existing levels. It’s called games development. I know everyone on these forums seems to want content but doesn’t want a FS employee to work a day in their lives because everything is “too much work” but believe me, they do actual games developing there!
I’d be shocked if they didn’t already have a whole bunch of prototypes left over from the initial WB stage and could easily dip into those.
Another point is that this kind of development can be continued by a small team as an ongoing long-term goal whilst the bulk of the studio crank out the prioritised content. It could even be done with 1-2 designers as the engine is there already and solid and they can play in the sandbox with tweaked settings. They’d not even have to be on it full time until studio decides it increased in priority (perhaps once a big chunk of money has been scooped when ps5 release happens). A whole studio of workers almost never works on the same thing. That would be very chaotic and wasteful of resources and wouldn’t make much sense. Team assigned to different content and goals is the norm.
Sound Designers do an amount of work that no one can comprehend. I have no idea how they do it but they always do. They are machines. Any audio would be ready a long time before the likely-outsourced art assets - that wouldn’t affect the studio workflow because its outsourced and can run in tandem. Animation is the thing that will take the most time and cost a bit due to motion capture (if they go that route) but a good producer can make that process pretty smooth and even that is outsourced these days.
So yeah it’s well within the realm of possiblity and I’ll goddamn scream the next time someone on these forums says anything alone the lines of “it’s too much work”. A new level is a lot of work! Everything is a lot of work! It’s a videogame! and games are hard to make unless you have a studio of highly skilled professionals. Then it just takes time.
Building a whole new engine would be too much work…but even then on many occasions I’ve seen a tiny dedicated team plugging away in the corner doing just that, whilst the rest of the studio continues on current engine content.
Only if as an ogryn if you ran out of rocks you can pick up your fellow rattling and hurl them at the enemy.
Not really, Ogrun is able to introduce weapons that the Zelaot isn’t.
If you want to consider some factor of redundancy, it would be between the Veteran and the Zealot, because any weapon they use could have been given to the other.
But if we want to compare the 3 (Vet, Zeal, Ratling), there are 2 that are much better suited for the game we have here than the other.
Ok, but what about saying: ‘Making a Ratling archetype would require more work while being able to introduce less than Tech Adept, certain Xenos or even Sisters’
Both gameplay wise, and business wise (Selling cosmetics)
Close…sort of. What you’re talking about are the Abhuman of league of votann/Squats. Ratlings are different. They have names. Technically in lore they make terrible soldiers. All they do is drink, eat, and breed…a lot. The imperium found a use for them as marksmen and scouts. They’re that size because of unbelievable years of inbreeding and the climate in the worlds their from. Check out league of votann. That’s what you’re talking about has been as strong as soldiers.
The new Ratlings look like they’re getting buffed and with some new kit though. And if they can take on a squad of orks and other kill teams then they’re clearly tougher than some people here seem to think.
Some fun info here
Again, a room of good designers and a whiteboard could conjure any number of fun mechanics for either character. Your preference doesn’t make one or the other true. I can’t truly claim that one would be more than fun than the other as it’s speculation and I believe it’s irrelevant. Any new archetype would be fun otherwise it wouldn’t make it into the game. I do however believe a Ratling just “fits” better into the DT world of dark-humoured and dank expendable ex-cons. Just my opinion oc.
As for selling cosmetics, it’s actually the opposite. A humanoid with regular scale will have, at the very least, some crossover cosmetics, unlike a Ratling which would require entirely new and bespoke outfits to be made and purchased due to it’s form factor, just like Ogryn. This is amplified in a FOMO system.
Tbh It’s all just a matter of preference. I’d prefer a potty-mouthed, fast, nimble, devious, halfing to play as the next archetype. You don’t and that’s fine, but things like gameplay mechanics would all be fun regardless of archetype as its the designers job to make it so.
you’re falling for the marketing, never trust the marketing, GW markets by lying about everything they can.
Not sure exactly what you mean by that?
My limited knowledge of kill teams is that each faction/squad is balanced to be able to fight with one another in a reasonably fair fight?
It says that a squad of Ratlings battles a squad of new Orks. Sorry if I’ve misunderstood.
it means there’s like ten ratlings and maybe five orks if you’re lucky. it’s probably mostly gretchen. and the ratling equipment will blow. GW always oversells models before they have to reveal their full rules (in case they decide to hit them with the nerf hammer just before release) so you never trust marketing and assume they’re a garbage choice with garbage rules until they’re forced to nail down the rules
Sure, but the Ratling aren’t balanced toward fighting in the nick of things like we are, they’re using traps, long range and their mobility to kit and keep out of melee.
Which here doesn’t really translate well into gameplay…
