New or better ammunition economy

Before you start reading I would like to inform you, dear Reject that English is not my native language, so the sentences syntax may have variables quality, I am truly sorry if correct grammar is close to your heart.

Currently, the Darktide ammo economy makes it almost impossible for more than two people to use dedicated ammo builds without increasing frustration or relaying on premade comps. While understandable in Vermintide, as it had both infinite ammo sources and dedicated range classes, with ammo sources of their own, in Darktide it doesn’t seem to work all the time.

What i propose is rework of ammo logic to make it more about players doing their job good and being rewarded and not about who was first to the ammo crate and wasn’t a !@#!@$.

My idea is:
*Ingame ammo pickups are rarer, serving as top-ups, low level sources of ammo or emergency pickups.
*Ammo generation would be tied to aura of every character and would be more efficient based on number of players in this aura (10%, 25%,66%, 100% ect.), some auras wouldn’t be subjected to this rule.
*Ammo generation wouldn’t be only benefiting the player but teammates also as to encourage team play.
*One character generating ammo wouldn’t be able to sustain himself and others (maybe future dedicated support class would be an exception).
*Classes that don’t use ammo would benefit from reduced peril/heat generation or some additional bonuses tied to range weapons al’a Bardins brews.
*Ammo generation shouldn’t overwhelm players or be their sole focus, as such its should be rare enough to be a side job, and plentiful enough to not be ignored
*As to not increase amount of button presses for players the “take ammo” interaction would be proximity based (or bound to a button switchable in options if someone wants to optimize the amount of ammo)

How would it look like:

*Ogryn would be interacteble (or have dedicated button for self) to take team ammo he generated [small amout of ammo but generated easly and reliebly](1 per player, per generation)

*Veteran would have dedicated deployable ammo pack [more ammo but harder to aquire] (2 use per player, per generation)

*Zelot would generate ammo piles on killed enemies (1 pick up per player)

*Psyker would, depending on the weapon, have a occasional possibility to stay at 99% peril for a bit loneger (like 2-5 sec) to grant unlimited ammo for few seconds or summon a ghost magazines for team that would increase current and max ammo for up to a minute.

How would it tie to auras:
Every aura in the game (except basic aura) would get additional mini quest that would generate team ammo and would have dedicated triggers that would make this ammo available. Depending on the aura, the amount of team ammo available would be tied to a filling bar that can be triggered above 50% fill or to a "IT CAN BE DONE :tm: " icon.

*Zelot:
-Loner: generate team ammo fast outside team aura, in team aura killed elite enemies drop ammo piles
-Beacon of Purity: While healing corruption, generates team ammo (do grims generate it infinetly?), killed chaos major enemies (ogryns, bosses, maulers. ect) drop ammo piles
-Benediction: Taking damage (small amount for toughnes, big for health) generate team ammo, not getting hit for few seconds allow for the next kill to spawn ammo pile.

*Veteran:
-Survivalist: elite and special kills when the aura is on cooldown generate team ammo, deployed in ammo box
-Fire Team: teammate kills generate veterans team ammo, deployed in ammo box
-Close and Kill: Close range kill would generate team ammo, deployed by giving or throwing ammo packs to teammates, no additonal team ammo is generated until previous ammo is handed-out or 1 minute passes.

*Psyker:
-Prescience: team ammo ability can be triggered after each teammates scores X critical hits (small amount) or in sum Y critical hits were scored (bigger amount) and going to 99% peril
-Seer’s Presence: team ammo ability can be trigger after 1,5 min cut by 20 sec per teams abbility usage.
-Kinetic Presence: Triggers after 1 min or combined X special and elite team kills duration of the ability depends on number of special and elite kills with maximal duration on X kills.

*Ogryn:
-Bonebreaker’s Aura: Heavy attacks generate team ammo, next special or elite kill makes it avilable, amount depends on how long the killing heavy attack was held.
-Stay Close!: (This aura shuld be reworked but…) Ammo is generated along with teams toughnes replenishment, team taking above X toughnes damage or any health damage makes it available.
-Coward Culling: Killed enemies generate team ammo depending on amount of suppresed enemies in the aera, reloading X times or fireaing for Y seconds makes the ammo avilable.

Afterword: Im well aware that such a major redesign of the most basic system of the game would require an incredible amount of work, and I don’t expect fatshark to do it in the near future, I just hope that in the time ahead some kind of ammunition generation system will be available to players as to relay more on skill of the player, not greed.

5 Likes

This sounds really hard to actually envision and judge based on what you said so I will not make hypotheticals :thinking:

But I do believe that ammo economy is kinda ass if you are using some ammo hungry weapons, which don’t really return on damage as much…
Like Stubbers or Rippers on Ogryn, in my biased experience.

So, I am open to new experiences :+1:

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keep in mind that darktide has equal focus on melee mechanic / attacks that´d become less important if ammo was available in abundance.

a good part of “skill” in darktide is being able to maneuver around and avoid incoming close ranged enemies, you just can´t keep them at range all the time.

way i see it, if you encourage people to only rely on their ranged arsenal they atrophy even further in the movement department thus having an even harder time understanding the games basics and fundamentals.

far up into even havoc ammo consumption can be managed and only at the last one is efficient ammo contribution even mandatory.

very rarely had i lost a fight against a “hoover” even in auric maelstrom and not get enough ammo to solve hairy ranged situations.
then again if the perpetrator in question wouldn´t have mindlessly wasted any the situation wouldnt have taken place, so again, human error.

once you´ve reached beyond auric maelstrom you´ll find little in the way of challenge that goes beyond simple numbers game.

ammo is a part of said numbers, game´d give me tons of for my kickback i guess everyone else would have an even more relaxed job and my pickaxe would catch on rust as would my movement/timing skill.

that being said, i ponder about a way each archetype would have his own ammo cause i find it odd to fit the same bullets into my kickback that shouty used for his puny lead pipe…
this way ammo could be contributed a “different” way.

2 Likes

Excluding the controversial Havoc ammo modifiers, not mag dumping trash hordes usually solves much of the ammo issues on higher difficulties.

Believe it or not, melee is highly effective with the correct setup (not just dueling sword btw), even on Vet.

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They are magic bullets blessed by Big E to work in every gun, to question how it works is heresy.

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They should just put the third ammo bag back on the map, people never loot or leave one behind like 90% of the time anyway. How often are you even in lobbies where they got both?

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putting aside that fact that even on damnation it’s fairly simple for most of the team to comfortably use their guns as long as everyone’s not running bolters or blindly spraying into hordes constantly (though one’s usually also the other) this seems to be less about improving ammo economy and more about removing the searching for items aspect of gameplay by putting the ammo pack spawns in wherever team coherency is. they’re not going to do that because it’s baked into too many other things at this point.

but really you should probably be asking yourself if the people you play with are practicing proper fire control. this sounds like a “using the bolter on hordes” problem to me.

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Just wait until you play havoc 40. You’ll appreciate how much ammo you get in the standard mode.

But honestly I don’t run ammo hungry builds in general. I also see a lot of people wasting their ammo on non-priority targets… Or shooting things someone has already engaged in melee and seems fine to finish on their own.

If I am running ammo hungry builds, I am running survivalist and/or las weapons with the talent to not consume ammo on crit. Or lucky bullets with Ogyrn.

Generally it’s not an issue even on Auric. Unless you’re playing with people who unload their clips into pox walkers and such.

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I find that there’s more ammo available on Havoc 40s than in the average auric pug, despite the -75% ammo modifier. It’s impressive how much impact even just one player spraying at lone poxers has, of which there’s always at least one in aurics. I think ammo econ is fine too, it’s wholly a player issue

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Alot of the ammo issues in this game stem from vets running kraks with tinkerer and the damage aura as opposed to survivalist which I myself never do. Its also a problem that nobody opens crates or checks the corners of maps for ammo or ammo crates for that matter. I cant tell you how many games i have some krak tinkerer vet on my team and teammates spamming they need ammo and I always tell them blame the vet for not running survivalist.

I also tell them theirs ammo everywhere but you have to look for it. There are two ammo crates on the map and ammo everywhere but you wont ever find it if all you wanna do is W key past all the resources and crates. Ammo is rarely ever an issue for me in this game.  Also sure some weapons like ripper or gunlugger are going to be ammo starved but in general its not difficult to maintain your ammo throughout the course of a map. All I ever see in games wether its damnation or auric are krak tinkerer vets but people wonder why they dont have ammo, vets included. Just run survivalist and your ammo problems will vanish. Ive been playing damnation and we will walk into areas filled with ammo, resources, and potential stims and they just B line up the stairs and dont look for anything. I understand people dont care for resources but theyre shared and with resources comes stims and crates so its a win win for everyone. Ive yet to understand why people are so keen on flying through maps and never opening crates as if we have some massive update and you need the money from runs as quick as possible.


   Lets not act like we dont go 4 months between every update yet all I see are people trying to W key as fast as possible and finish every mission in 20 minutes as opposed to actually looking for things. I wamt every stim and every crate and every bit of diamantine I can find because eventually we will need it.
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wat? grenades don’t use the same ammo and vets have like four ways to get more grenades outside of the pickups?

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There are more words in his sentence there which explain what he meant, you save two talent points by skipping survivalist. Didn’t you literally just accuse me of not reading posts btw?

The games ammo economy is fine

You have a melee weapon for a reason I’d recommend using it rather than trying to point blank mag dump everything. Something I’ve seen way way too often from my player who should of learnt that much earlier into their darktide playtime.

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I can’t tell you how many games I see people with 5% ammo left running past ammo bags I just pinged.

Also, people don’t understand how ammo crates work and double dip.

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But I want to shoot hordes :smiling_face_with_tear:
At least as Gunlugger Ogryn…

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if anything we need far less ammo per map, at least 50% less would be great

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Shoot as many poxwalker hordes as your heart desires, and don’t forget to ignore the puny psyker spamming ping on ammo pickups and grenades for extra lols.

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The Rumbler definitely needs a little more ammo.

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HELL YEAH it does!

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Im talking about the fact that 98% of vets I see take the damage aura and go middle tree as opposed to shredders with survivalist I just left that out of what I said but thats what I meant. Alot of that is because people dont know how good survivalist or shredders is and alot of that is people who dont know how to do boss dps or kill crushers and bulwarks outside of a krak grenade. Every game I play with tinkerer damage aura vets people are constantly out of ammo. Some of that is a skill issue especially on damnation but in general people just dont look for ammo. You cant complain about not having ammo and simultaneously refuse to stop playing with kraks but its all I see nowadays. I also think its a problem for ogryns who arent using kickback but i dont guess veterans are thinking about ogryns when they make builds obviously lol.