New mechanic: Warp psychosis

The humble servant of the Beloved by all God Emperor has decided to share a small idea about a mechanic that potentially could transform the game. There will be 2 texts, the first in English (Google servitor helped the barbarian, so please bear with me) and the second in Russian (hidden)

Before you read, take a look at a short excerpt from the game’s intro video. It definitely expresses madness and hopelessness. Initially, I was expecting something like this, and when they introduced the dark map - the first few times were exactly like that: tension and caution, nothing visible, only a flashlight from a lasgun and faith in the Emperor led us forward. And now it’s just a map that mostly makes the eyes strain… https://youtu.be/x-DtwQUCWx4?si=GCqe5_xKJhhghFhP&t=86

Summary

Прежде чем читать, посмотрите небольшой отрывок из вступильного ролика игры, на нём определённо выражено безумие и безнадёжность, изначально я ожидал чего-то такого, и когда ввели карту без света - первые несколько раз так и было: напряженность и осторожность, ничего не видно и лишь фонарик с лазгана и вера в Императора вела вперёд, а теперь же это просто карта, которая в основном заставляет глаза напрягаться…
https://youtu.be/x-DtwQUCWx4?si=GCqe5_xKJhhghFhP&t=86

Terms that will be used:
Chaos Psyker - CP
Player 1 - P1
Player 2 (allies) - P2
Warp Psychosis - WP
Demonhost - DH
Enemy Specialist - ES
Purification Ritual - PR
Sedative - SO

The main idea:
On difficulty levels 3 and higher, instead of a standard boss (spawn, beast, ogryn, demonhost), the PC will appear, not attempting to close the distance to the players, but exerting influence on their minds from significant range. While the PC is alive, specialists and hordes appear more frequently, including the introduction of new entities if they have already appeared.

When the PC appears on the map, all players start accumulating WP. Initially, each operator carries 1 unit of S that can temporarily slow the accumulation of WP by half, but cannot reduce the current level of accumulation. This resource is not available to find on the map, to encourage strategic decision-making on higher difficulties. When P1’s WP reaches maximum, hallucinations begin, expressed in two stages:
(1) Instead of familiar P2 entities, P1 sees models of ES (random every time, not tied to class to prevent easy identification of allies), leading to friendly fire within the team. For P1, other P2 will appear as ES, while for P2, P1, despite being an ally, will be considered a threat better eliminated. Any damage from both close and ranged combat is significantly reduced (not all may have ammunition, posing an existential threat).
(2) P1 starts seeing non-existent ES (indistinguishable from real ones by model or behavior). P2 cannot see them, but can see a static marker where P1 claims there is an ES. ES vanishes from all damage dealt by P1 in a purple mist (or another effect representing a disappearing apparition). ES possesses the standard abilities of their model and can damage P1, inflicting a health curse (leaving at least 1 HP). Any ES can be eliminated by any AoE damage from P2.

Upon the activation of WP, the application of S to P1 will not have the same slowing effect. A real trial begins for both P1 and the team, which is expressed in two points:

(1) This will be represented by a timer (or the WP bar turning red from end to start). When the time expires, P1 dies and is immediately replaced by a DH (with its standard model and behavior) that attacks P2. On difficulty level 3, the DH kills one target; on difficulty levels 4 and 5, it kills two targets, with health values similar to the current ones. After the required number of targets have been killed, if any of P2 are still alive, the DH collapses to the ground. If there are no surviving players, the DH uses a warp portal and disappears (“You have failed the Emperor!”).

Upon successful elimination of the DH, the previously deceased P1 does not respawn at the resurrection point. The taint within their body must be expelled through a Purification Ritual (PR): Any of P2 approaches the DH’s body and holds down the E button for approximately 30 seconds, or a reaction-based mini-game can be implemented. If the PR is canceled, it must be started again, and hordes will attack all P2 until the PR is successfully completed. If a teammate fails to complete the PR, P1 cannot be resurrected, but they can still receive a reward after the mission is completed.

(2) Point 1 can be avoided by successfully eliminating the PC before P1’s VP bar/timer is filled. In this case, P1 stops accumulating the bar for transformation into a DH but continues to experience the consequences of WP, albeit for a longer duration than the initial exposure.

When the team reaches the PC, they encounter a full-fledged boss with a fixed health regardless of the difficulty level (35k + 90k shield). In melee combat, the boss only engages when players are in close proximity (5m) and after the shield is destroyed; otherwise, it uses ranged attacks such as lightning staff or warp attacks. It can repel players with a significant push attack, completely breaking their resilience and endurance, and applying a 30% temporary movement speed reduction effect for 3 seconds. While the PC is alive, specialists and hordes constantly appear, significantly complicating the process of defeating the boss. Furthermore, the PC can summon any of the bosses for assistance (spawn, ogryn), but not a beast - it’s too slow, and the PC needs the help of a fast ally. The summoned boss will have reduced health in the same vein as the modifier for special enemy monsters. The summoning starts when the shield level drops to 40% of its original value and lasts for 5 seconds (level 5 difficulty), 7 seconds (level 4 difficulty), or 9 seconds (level 3 difficulty). The summoning can be cancelled by completely destroying the shield. During the summoning, the PC does not move and remains stationary (as if in a praying motion).

The Chaos Psyker may appear on the map instead of the standard boss a limited number of times, depending on the difficulty level:

  • Level 3: Once per game with a 25% chance
  • Level 4 and 5: Twice per game with a 65% chance
  • Level 5 in the Aurik Malesthorm (AM): Three times per game (first appearance 80%, second appearance 60%, third appearance 20%). This may seem excessive and potentially complicate these specific tasks, but they are intended for highly experienced operatives who undertake the most challenging missions and should live up to the Inquisition’s confidence in them.

In principle, I have described what I wanted, and of course, the figures and other details can be refined. However, even in such an approximate format as ideas, it looks very promising, at least for me. If this were to be implemented, here’s what we would get:
1 - The Demonhost will no longer be humiliated and insulted, but will become a real threat that can still be avoided, but only by making a real effort, not simply bypassing it.
2 - A new boss that will be just as interesting as the Twins were before (when they were not confined to a single map), but unlike them, this boss will bring a specific challenge for all, throwing down the gauntlet.
3 - Incentive for player interaction during the game (not guaranteed), I mean the use of voice/text chat for more than just writing in the game.
4 - Motivation for players to develop and try more challenging missions. While most players spend time on level 5, there are still quite a few who enjoy level 4. In my experience, I’ve had to wait a full minute for players in AM missions, not to mention the preliminary lobby search. Motivation can be expressed within the gameplay itself (higher difficulty - malfunctioning VP occurs more frequently), as well as in monetary rewards. For example, an additional reward can be introduced for killing VP, which is lacking for killing DH, or for completing a map without any deaths. For instance, a certain currency could be awarded only for killing VP and successfully completing the map (if you killed VP but did not complete the map, you won’t receive this reward), if you did both, then you get something, here are some options:
4.1 - 1 WP = 1 voucher for guaranteed purchase from Brant of a gray item with maximum stats (80%). An additional icon appears - apply the guarantee, but using it also increases the price of the item to 300k (this is very little and can be farmed very quickly).
4.2 - Inquisition’s Favor token - you can enhance the current parameters of your weapons (such as strength, agility, etc.) up to a maximum of 80%. For each use, you can increase them by no more than 5%. Additionally, resources are used that are taken in the usual weapon improvement, the ratio of plasteel/diamond/gold is 2k/500/100k for each step.
4.3 - If we really want to be bold, we could give out Aquilas for each killed player character, the amount varying depending on the difficulty level they were killed on:
Level 3 - 3 units
Levels 4 and 5 - 4 units
Auric Maelstrom - 5 units

But even without giving out rewards, this will be an excellent idea to implement. Of course, it would need fine-tuning with numbers, balance, and other aspects, but after all, everything grand begins with an idea; once that’s in place, we can polish the rest throughout the process.

What do you think of my idea?
  • I’m curious, I would like to see it.
  • Oh, come on, we’re doing fine as it is.
0 voters
Summary

Термины которые будут:
Псайкер Хаосит - ПХ
Игрок 1 - П1
Игрок 2 (все союзники) - П2
Варп Психоз - ВП
Демонхост - ДХ
Вражеский специалист - ВС
Ритуал очищения - РО
Успокоительное - УО

Основная суть:
На уровнях сложности 3 и выше будет появляться ПК вместо стандартного босса (отродье, тварь, огрин, демонхост), при этом не будет стараться приблизиться к игрокам, вместо этого он находится на значительной дистанции и воздействовать на разум игроков. Пока жив ПК чаще появляются специалисты, орды (в том числе если они уже появились - начинаются появляться новые).
С появлением на карте ПК у всех игроков начинает накапливаться ВП. У всех оперативников изначально имеется при себе 1 единица УО с помощью которой можно остановить замедлить накоплении ВП в два раза, но нельзя им снимать уже накопившийся уровень, также на карте невозможно найти этот ресурс (мотивирует на высоких сложностях думать когда применять). - при достижении максимального значения у П1, начинаются галлюцинации, что выражается в двух этапах:
(1) вместо привычных П2 он видит модельки ВС (каждый раз случайные и без привязки к классу, чтобы исключить возможность лёгкой идентификации союзника) - начинает действовать френдлифаер между всех командой - для п1 остальные п2 в образе вражеских специалистов, а вот для п2 наш неудачливый п1 представляет угрозу, хоть и союзник, поэтому при необходимости лучше устранить. Урон заметно сниженный будет как от ближнего так и от дальнего боя(не у всех могут иметься патроны в наличии и как тогда устранить угрозу?))
(2) п1 начинает видеть несуществующих ВС (без какого-либо отличия от настоящих и по моделькам и по принципу действия) п2 не видят их, со стороны п1 может быть отмечен ВС - однако п2 не видят ВС, но метку видят статично на месте. ВС исчезает от любого урон со стороны п1 в виде фиолетовой дымки (или иной эффект пропадающего призрака). ВС обладает стандартными навыками своей модели и может наносить урон по п1, однако он выражается в наложении проклятия на здоровье (от их урона остаётся всегда не менее 1 хп). При этом любой ВС может устранён если будет задет любым АоЕ уроном от п2

После начала действия ВП применение УО на п1 не будет такой же эффект с замедлением и для него и команды начинается действительное испытание, которые опять выражается в двух пунктах:
(1) Выражаться оно будет в виде таймера(либо полоска ВП краситься в красный цвет из конца в начало)При истечении времени п1 умирает и вместо него появляется ДХ(стандартная его моделька и поведение), который сразу нападает на п2. На 3 уровне сложности убивает 1 цель, на 4 и 5 уровне 2 цели, значения по здоровью ДХ аналогичные текущим. После убийства необходимо количества целей и если кто-то из П2 ещё жив - ДХ падает на землю (как в случае смерти), если среди игроков нет живых - ДХ использует портал в варп и исчезает (Вы подвели Императора!)
При успешном устранении ДХ погибший ранее п1 не появится на точке воскрешения, т.к. из его тела нужно изгнать скверну путём проведения РО:
Любой из п2 подходит к телу ДХ и зажимает нашу любимую кнопку Е (примерное время 30 секунд) либо можно будет реализовать мини-игру на реакцию. Если РО отменить - его необходимо начинать повторно, и пока он не завершен на всех п2 будет нападать орда (перестают нападать если все п2 покидают зону боя, но нужно сделать так чтобы покидание считалось уходом с части карты без возможности возврата). Если союзник не будет завершен РО то возродиться п1 не сможет, однако по завершению миссии всё равно может получить награду.
(2) Избежать пункта 1 можно при успешном устранении ПК до заполнения у П1 полоски/таймера ВП - тогда у п1 прекращается накоплении полоски для превращения его в ДХ, однако он не перестаёт испытывать последствия ВП - но он уходит со временем (более длительное время чем изначальное получение)

Когда команда добирается до ПК, то они встречают полноценного босса, у него будет фиксированное здоровье вне зависимости от уровня сложности (35к + 90к щит), в ближний бой он вступает только при наличии игроков близко (5м) и при уничтожении щита, в остальном случае использует дальний бой: посох молний или иной вид варп атак. Может отталкивать игроков пуш атакой на значительное расстояние и полностью сбивая стойкость и выносливость + накладывая эффект временного замедления движения на 30% на 3 секунды. Пока жив ПК будут постоянно появляться специалисты и орды, что будет значительно усложнить процесс его убийства и также он призывает на помощь себе любого из боссов (отродье или огрин, тварь не подходит - слишком медленная, и ПК нужна помощь именно быстрого союзника) здоровье не полное, а по аналогии с модификатором на особых противников монстров. Призыв начинается когда уровень щита падает до 40% от изначального значения, длится в течении 5 (5 сложность) 7 (4 сложность) 9 (3 сложность) секунд, отменить призыв можно полностью уничтожив щит. Во время призыва ПК не двигается и стоит на месте (какая-нибудь анимация поднятых рук в виде молитвы).
Псайкер хаоса может появляться на карте ограниченно количество раз вместо стандартного босса в зависимости от уровня сложности:
3й уровень - 1 раз за игру с шансом 25%
4 и 5 уровень - 2 раза за игру с шансом 65%
5 уровень в аурик малешторм(АМ) - 3 раза за игру (1 появление 80%, второе появление 60%, третье появление 20%(совсем издеваться не будем), да звучит много и что это потенциально усложнит конкретно эти задания, но ведь это задания для крайне опытных оперативников, которые берутся за самые сложные задачи, так пусть оправдывают доверие Инквизиции к себе.

В принципе я описал что хотел, конечно цифры и прочее можно доработать, посидеть и подумать и сделать идеально. Но даже в таком приблизительном формате как идеи - это выглядит многообещающе, как минимум для меня.
Если это ввести, то что мы получим:
1 - Демонхост перестанет быть униженным и оскорблённым, а станет реальной угрозой, которую всё также можно избежать, но действительно приложив усилия, а не просто обойдя его.
2 - Новый босс, который будет также интересен как и ранее Близнецы (когда не были заперты в одной карте), но в отличии от них - он будет приносить с собой и определённое испытание для всех, бросать вызов.
3 - Стимул к взаимодействию игроков во время игры (не гарантировано), я имею ввиду использование голосового/текстового чата кроме как для написания ГГ.
4 - Мотивация игроков развиваться, и пробоваться более сложные миссии, да большинство игроков проводит время именно на 5 уровне, но не мало и тех кто развлекается на 4м. Я же сталкиваюсь с тем что на миссиях АМ жду игроков полноценную минуту, а это не говоря о предварительном поиске лобби. Мотивацию можно выразить как в самом процессе (выше сложность - чаще работает ВП), так и в денежном, за убийство ВП можно ввести дополнительную награду, чего не хватает например за ДХ, или за прохождение карты без смертей. К примеру можно добавить Х валюту, которая даётся только за факт убийства ВП и успешное прохождение карты (убили и не прошли - нет этой награды), прошли и убили - вам даётся что-нибудь, вот варианты:
переведи на английский:
4.1 - 1 ВП = 1 талон на гарантированную покупку у Бранта серого предмета с максимальными статами (80%), появляется дополнительная иконка - применить гарант, но с его использованием также и вырастает цена предмета до 300к (это очень мало и фармится очень быстро)
4.2 - Знак благосклонности Инквизиции - вы можете улучшать текущие параметры оружия(которые сила, ловкость и тд) до максимального значения в 80%, за каждое применение можно увеличить не более чем на 5%, также используются ресурсы которые берутся при обычном улучшении оружия, соотношение пластстали/диамантин/золото 2к/500/100к за каждый шаг
4.3 - Если уж совсем обнаглеть, то можно выдавать Аквилы за каждого убитого ПК, размер меняется в зависимости от уровня сложности где он был убит:
3й - 3 ед
4 и 5 - 4 ед
Аурик Маелшторм - 5
Но даже и без выдачи наград, это будет отличной к реализации идея. Да у неё конечно работать и работать с цифрами, балансом и прочим, но ведь всё грандиозное начинается с идеи, она есть - остальное уже можно и в процессе отполировать

2 Likes

Hallucinations could be fun. But it also turns into

1.) shared hallucinations? Or individual
2.) what happens if you get hit by/ignore illusory enemies? What prevents player from finding a meta or way to determine what’s real or not especially if it’s not shared?
3.) What happens when you defeat a hallucination? Does it poof into smoke to let you know it was something else?
4.) do they make sounds and sound queues?

Hallucinations covering paths or hiding pickups could be funny.

There are technical considerations if you have 4 players seeing different enemies. Already consoles struggled with the same number of enemies on screen PC players do, so not sure what happens when you have 4 players seeing 4 different hordes you kept track of.

I think instead of adding a new system you could use corruption and/or peril as well.

I don’t think long term hallucinations would be ideal. Maybe specials or elites that could give you the short term status.

Personally I would maybe add hallucinations only for flavour. Maybe to make some normal enemies appear as elites/specials when they’re just regular mooks so they seem ‘scarier’ than they are. And an easier way to remove it. Maybe only permanent if it’s corruption in your last health bar segment. And even then it can’t be so debilitating.

4 Likes

Отвечу на русском, что ж, идея хороша, поддержу.

1 Like

what if you already have it

2 Likes

ChatGPT to the rescue:

  • Players start accumulating WP (Warp Psychosis) when the CP (Chaos Psyker) appears, impacting strategic gameplay due to limited availability of SO (Sedative) to slow WP accumulation.
  • Hallucinations affect P1 in two stages due to WP:
    1. P1 perceives allies (P2) as enemy specialists (ES), potentially causing friendly fire.
    2. P1 sees non-existent ES, invisible to P2 but marked by a static marker; these hallucinations can harm P1 but disappear in a purple mist when attacked by P1.
  • Advanced effects of WP:
    • Applying SO no longer slows WP for P1, escalating the game difficulty.
    • When WP fully accumulates, P1 dies and transforms into a DH (Demonhost), attacking P2.
      • On difficulty levels 3, the DH targets and kills one P2; on levels 4 and 5, it kills two before collapsing or disappearing via a warp portal if no P2 survives.
  • Upon DH’s defeat, P1 does not respawn automatically but requires a Purification Ritual (PR):
    • Any P2 must interact with DH’s body for a set time or complete a mini-game.
    • Interruption of PR triggers attacks from hordes until the ritual is completed.
  • Avoidance and Boss Dynamics:
    • If PC is defeated before P1’s transformation bar is full, P1 faces extended effects of WP without turning into DH.
    • PC acts as a formidable boss with set health and shield levels, engaging in close or ranged combat based on player proximity, and can summon other bosses during battle.
  • CP appearance rates vary with difficulty:
    • Level 3: 25% chance once per game.
    • Levels 4 and 5: 65% chance twice per game.
    • Level 5 in the Aurik Malesthorm (AM): Up to three times per game, with diminishing appearance rates.

This structure supports intense cooperative and strategic play, especially at higher difficulty levels.

1 Like

It’s a very well thought-out idea. I’m not sure if it would be fun or just annoying in practice, though. The idea of enemy psyker is a cool one, and I like the idea of them working on the player’s mind.

The pitfalls I see are:

  1. Players hate having control taken away from them. “Dying” and becoming an enemy without having been bested in some way feels bad, man.
  2. Daemonhosts are not really great enemies to fight. I don’t mean because they’re dangerous, but because they’re annoying. Their constant pushback makes everyone have to chase them, and it’s just a clown fiesta.
  3. This is just a wipe without any recourse if the Chaos Psyker is on the other side of a dense horde and someone has almost changed. This will just wipe pub groups the vast majority of the time unless the Chaos Psyker just stands in the open and has minimal help.

You have some neat concepts here, though. It’d be interesting to see more of a psychosis bent built into a level or event!

What if the Chaos Psyker liked to spawn close to existing Daemonhosts? Drawn like a moth to a flame. The hallucinations could lead to players seeing multiple DHs or other things that make the situation trickier. When you get close to the Chaos Psyker they can knock you back with a power and create hallucinatory extra copies of themselves. If left alive they open portals and summon groups of enemies.

A final note; next time maybe don’t use so many abbreviations, just write out the new terms a few times, then put the abbreviation in parentheses. “Enemy Psyker (EP)”, then eventually just “EP”. Just a style suggestion, it’s not a big deal. :sweat_smile:

3 Likes

This is a cool idea, the sort of reality breaking down around you as you struggle to contest the warp, but I think the big issue here is - it’s completely trivialized by communication between players. If you’re in, say, a Discord call, and your psychosis maxes out, you can communicate this to other players, and simply go off special duty while your teammates handle it.

Additionally, seeing random specialists moving in ways that specialists do not (in quick bursts for dodges, not running directly at players, even just being out of position in the first place - when was the last time you saw a bomber standing in the middle of your team that wasn’t descended upon by a flock of wild Zealots until there’s nothing but bones left?) can key even a moderately savvy player in on who’s real and who’s not - the hallucinations won’t be much of an issue either, unless you’re running something like the Bolter.

Additionally, giving the boss a fixed health value may not necessarily be the best idea - players on Malice difficulty may only have just hit level 3, with umgak weapons and barely any talents - how the hell are they supposed to compete with a boss totaling upwards of 200k health (assuming one shield refill)? All the bosses I see here aside from the raid bosses don’t even crack 40k, and the Captain shields give a similar effective health value due to their squishy nature.

The whole encounter seems like a completely unwinnable situation to get into if you’re just cruising along a regular mission unless your whole team is godlike to an insane degree. I think it would work better as a raid boss - but as @BizarreSalp has stated, people don’t like having control taken away from them and dying for no reason. It’s why we complain about silent Poxbursters. There wasn’t a skill issue, the game’s just trash.

Stepping away from a gameplay perspective, the idea of transforming into a Daemonhost doesn’t line up with established Lore™. Daemonhosts are summoned through deliberate and meticulous rituals (somewhat surprisingly, usually instigated by Inquisitors), and Daemons have a difficult time manifesting in reality without heavy assistance from the Warp and/or cultists. Psykers turning into DHs I can understand, but a Zealot? Those guys who praise E-money, tha MF DOOM of all heretics? No chance.

All this said, I want to explore this concept more. We could use another raid boss in the future.

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The hallucinations will be individual and will only appear as specialists (I think we should probably not use the pox model), they can move and deal damage like regular specialists (keeping the sounds and other effects), however, instead of the usual damage to health or armor, they will inflict damage proportional to the curse on health. For example, with a bomber - you can usually jump away from its fire without losing much health, but in this case, we would receive a small curse damage. When the hallucination is destroyed, it will die as a purple mist. And of course, to avoid spamming them, we should limit their appearance, for example, 1 unit every 5-10 seconds. Therefore, only specialists (not elite/unique characters/bosses, but specifically specialists with individual appearance) should create them.

In terms of Discord and other voice communication services, players’ attentiveness starts to come into play. Imagine an enemy specialist (let’s say a net shooter) gets close to you and doesn’t throw the net or run away, but instead just runs around you - would a regular enemy do that? No, something’s off. However, a player would first shoot or attack the enemy, and then start thinking about it, eventually learning to notice these inconsistencies. But what if they don’t? And to push every random into Discord - we have voice and text chat available, and this can serve as a small incentive to use it. Also, my in-game discussions are centered around the game itself; not what’s happening outside or anything other than the game itself. As for the helplessness of the situation, the final timer/scale for when a player is exposed to the psychosis can be increased. I see 2-3 minutes as the minimum or average value, and during this time, the horde can be cleared. It’s unpleasant when control is taken away, but when a player dies, they usually sit without control and watch others or themselves, so everyone has experience with being out of control.
In terms of lore, I agree, the ritual is not simple or quick. Sometimes I look at the ogre, who is just as strong as the space marine, and he hits regular mobs and doesn’t kill them with one blow - it hurts. So, we can turn a blind eye to this. Regarding the fanatics - I have thought about that. Here we can discuss the advantages of this class - for example, if there is a passive skill for immortality - when the final scale is filled, the passive is triggered, and upon completion, it resets to 50% and starts filling up again. A passive skill for purging corruption - slows down the filling of the final scale by 1.5-2 times.
There is plenty of room for thinking and deliberation, everyone has good ideas and remarks which, with the right refinement, can become something magnificent.

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