It’s not “something” that went very wrong, it’s everything. The game still feels like an early access and it has been out for more than 1.5 year. The devs either got sabotaged hard by a C-suite that wanted the game out early or the devs are completely incompetent, there is no other possibility. Considering all the CM failures since release (seriously, what other game got as many CMs getting fired/quitting in 1.5 year because they were physically unable to keep their mouth shut ?) and the overall very low quality of the content we got since release I would tend towards incompetence more than C-suite but we would need a deep dive by
Jason Schreier for that kind of info
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My opinion is that removing the locks to just remove the locks is not the solution. However, creating a new system is good.
The only good point is that, if I understand a little the new system, we will be able to build our weapon like we want. Something I wanted.
This point is good. But, they miss something really important, the acquisition of the weapons. There’s a need to change Brunt. I am fed up to have to buy 50 weapons to have to sell one by one 49. Especially cause I spam click buy, and the game crashes!!!
I suggested this by the past. Point is, this game should be good for casual players. And actually it is a game built for hard core gamers. There’s something wrong here when the game is not about acquiring legendary stuff like in an RPG. We just want playing missions.
ok for me…
We will acquire blessings from the mastery path. So this problem is solved.
Except if they ask us to farm 400 missions to masterise one weapon.
Agree. I suggested it by the past.
They need to put a shop where we can buy or sell materials.
I would not like that.
Well, while the changes seem good on paper, they need to address the items acquisition. Shop and Brunt’s armoury need a rework and iut needs to be done at same time of the crafting patch.
Or the most important thing is missing.
If they could get rid totally of the RNG, it would even be better… come on, Fatshark, get rid of this RNG… or at least mitigate it a lot. I don’t want to spend millions to get 2 good weapons.
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It depends if you deem time/grind the issue, as many do, or if you see RNG (in any form) as the issue.
Juding by the forums there are many people in both camps.
I don’t believe Fs will remove RNG. They will hide it if they don’t just blatantly keep it (like base stats as far as I’m aware). Fs has a hard-on for RNG. They clearly have some online casino games designer whispering in their ear over retention without understanding that their gameplay is IMMENSLY fun. They have no faith in their own game, bizarrely. That whisperer isn’t going away in the new system.
I don’t believe they will rid RNG so my suggestions are ways that then greatly reduce our interaction with it, by either ridding it as much as possible or brute forcing it much quicker by allowing us to get the blessings 10x faster. Once everything is unlocked then it’s a case of playing with blessings instead of having anxiety over getting more pittances of plasteel.
You say their proposal is better than my suggestions but I obviously disagree otherwise I’d not have posted this thread.
As mentioned before, I originally thought their new system looked amazing… But after long thought and reading many others’ opinions and concerns I’m now of the mind that actually the game doesn’t need all that RPG nonsense. Just give us the weapons unlocks in the quickest way possible and let them create loads of new gameplay content.
After all that’s why we’re all here right? I don’t boot up DT to spend hours tinkering in voodoo UI - I want to play the missions.
There is no way in hell they are not making significant progress on DT2 as we speak. Seems ideal to keep the system for that and let us play a bunch of new gameplay content until it arrives. That’s my opinion.
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One directly informs the other. There’s not two well populated sides here, there’s just the one.
Ralendil tried to argue for your position way back and it was nonesense then too.
Giving me more currency to throw away doesn’t give me more agency! It only allows me to spend more time in a menu in one session.
Not a single person actually wants that. Not even yourself. You even say as much right here.
There’s plenty to be concerned about with FS’ solution. The only two things I wish they did in addition to what they have planned; giving curios the same treatment and getting rid of RNG basestats for weapons. Nobody likes them, nobody asked for them and their only purpose is to waste time / resources.
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You’re thinking too literally, per session. Think broader, the continuing experience after a few frustrating sessions of lots of rolls to unlock have been completed. A small price to pay for getting blessings unlocked ASAP.
The reason it’s a blight right now is the shear amount of time we have to spend in there because of deliberate material scarcity. Failed rolls take their toll because we don’t have enough resources to roll them away. We have to go mine and return over and over again. If we had a huge amount more then we’d get to where we wanted much quicker - which is unlocked blessings. Once blessings are unlocked then there is no more RNG beyond base stats but once locks removed then that’s gone too (and doesn’t take that long to roll a decent base tbh).
Getting the blessings roll out the way as quick as possible is my thinking.
I’d just unlock all perks and locks if it was up to me but I know Fatshark love RNG so I’m thinking of the quickest way to get through it.
Their new system is not going to be a quick way of doing anything by the sounds of it. You’ll have to grind a weapon to get it to a decent stay (I think) which sounds pretty grim after some consideration.
The fun of weapons should freely changing the blessings and perks combos and having fun with them and finding what works best for you - then changing them on different weapons for different matches and scenarios. The journey of unlocking the blessings is the bit we can do without. It’s retention bloat. We don’t need a whole new system of retention bloat… We just need to rip the RNG bandaid off as quick as possible.
Im sure it’s a single line of code to 10x materials and undo locks. Literally a day of work/QA.
This whole year-long system of extra retention bloat is something that I don’t need and this is coming from someone who has unlocked all penance rewards. I’m a completionist and quite like the penances but that stuff should only ever be for cosmetics (weapons skins etc). Core weapon mechanics should not be gated like some RPG. this is a horde shooter/slasher.
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We had a crafting rework already in the early days that’s the funny thing.
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No I am not. I am fully aware that you’re trying to make the point that your suggestion is supposedly better in the long run.
It’s simply not. It can’t be as it makes no sense at all.
I was under the reasonable impression that if I made it clear that your suggestion doesn’t help on a per session bases, it would never be helpful.
At this point you’re trying to argue against math and logic itsself. Rather silly if you asked me.
I’d say they’re not making significant progress towards DT 2 right now. They’re still trying to make DT work and are still developing VT 2’s PvP, while there also being rumblings about porting DT to another console. From what we’ve seen of their ability to multitask as a studio while working on the 'Tide series, that’s the limit as to what they can do.
Ain’t no way they’re working on Darktide 2, ain’t no way. I doubt that’s even in the books. The company is split between supporting two main titles right now on multiple platforms while also working on the ever resource intensive PvP mode for Vermintide.
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Regardless of what you want or what the entire community wants. They will not back down from making this change after they announced it and already put some hours into it. There is no point in talking about it whatsoever.
It took 1 and a half years of CONSTANT daily nagging to convince fatshark to remove the locks. The itemization update is going to happen even if the entire community united and started doing a protest to abandon it.
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God I hope not. We didn’t get this far just for that to happen.
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You literally contradict yourself here by saying you’re not talking about per session… yet you’d thought it “logical” to talk about per session, but OK.
You’ve not made a single compelling argument in favour for this proposed system and instead replied with frankly rude remarks, laced with ad hominem, attempting to make me seem unintelligent in order to validate your point. It’s boring. It’s a miracle I continued to engage with you by the aggressive way you entered this thread (literally a personal attack straight off the bat) but I’ve now had my fill thanks.
Let’s agree to disagree. Many people on the forum are not in favour of the new system. They must all be lacking in simple cognative functions too I guess. Go tell them that their opinions are “simply” “rather silly”.
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I’ve worked in games studios for most of my career and I’m over 40. In my experience, a company like this will absolutely be looking ahead at the next few years as it take years to develop a title. They will start with a reduced staff looking at barebones mechanics and design whilst majority work on DT1 then it will shift to majority working on whitebox, AI, design, art etc whilst a reduced staff take care of DT1 bugs and updates.
Judging on the size of the company, and the output we see for DT1, then it’s my logical guess that a reduced staff are looking after DT1 whilst majority are in the DT2 workmode. Oc it’s just my guess but really it makes sense when you look at the output and timeline/age of the title.
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But it’s not a condradiction? I’ll repeat: If your suggested changes do nothing in the short term, why assume they would in the long term?
You know what the definition of insanity is, right? at least according to “Vaas”
Not a single compelling argument? How’s it on me that logic is not compelling to you?
I’m going to make this as clear as I can:
You set the standard that your systems had to meet, yourself. It was clear from the start that you tried to come up with a system that is better than FS’ solution, not better than what we have right now.
So logically; the only argument I ever needed to make was that your suggestions DO NOT FIX the actual issue while FS’ proposal has a decent chance of actually fixing it. If anything their system gets much closer to an actual solution than yours does.
You opend this thread with the intention to come up with a better solution than FS did and I came in here to tell you that you, cathergorically, did not. I explained how you didn’t and that you’re not the first to come up with those ideas and points.
There’s nothing more that needs to be said.
And you’re thinking of a solution to a problem that doesn’t actually need to exist at all. You’re arguing for an alternative to the RNG whereas my first suggestion is simply to unlock the blessings and locks and let people enjoy the game and play with the blessings. Problem solved.
So yeah. My argument is actually pretty solid thanks, despite all the derogatory-toned language you may conjure.
Some of us don’t want weapon progression on top of character progression. That seems to be a notion you’re unable to grasp.
Any weapon progression should only ever unlock cosmetics imo. Do not gatekeep the core mechanics (blessings).
Keep “repeating yourself” all you want. From you’re stance and relentless attempt to derail my opinion, I can only assume you’re a play tester and have a marriage with the new system and feel some ownership over it. Constantly calling me wrong without actually explaining why suggests as much.
“why assume they would in the long term?” did you even bother to read what I wrote? In the short to medium term, let alone longterm, using my alternative suggestions, blessings would be fully unlocked, mitigating RNG completely. So it’s not even an assumption.
The end goal, for me (with this opinion that I’m actually freely allowed to have btw) is that we should just get passed all the locked weapon mechanics swiftly if not instantly so that we can get on with enjoying the actual game.
You want layers of extra menus and hours of grinds and unlocks. Good for you. I don’t.
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Thank you for sharing your experience on this. I really do appreciate it.
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But it both does and how’s that different from what you’re doing?
Yeah, that’s the goal. All the RNG that currently exists, wastes time and resources. Nobody want’s their time wasted, we’ve been over this.
Your suggestions still don’t remove all RNG factors and I’m not the only one to point this out to you.
It’s a solid improvement over what we have today. It’s not a solid improvement over what FS are trying to implement. You may not like it but it’s objectively true.
I don’t want that either so I can’t be unable to grasp this. You’d know that if you read a single other of my messages in other threads regarding the topic. Then again, I don’t expect anyone to do such a thing, don’t get me wrong.
I agree. The thing is just that that’s not what your solution suggests as it does not account for the RNG basestats. Nowhere do you make any suggestions for how a weapons stats can be affected and that’s the single biggest waste of resources and time in the current system.
You can free blessings all you want and remove their RNG along side with it, you still have not fixed the gambling problem fully as it still exists with baseline stats!
I did bother to read what you wrote and I did bother to understand it but I’m more and more sure that’s a curtesy I’m extending to you and not the other way around.
That’s quite the deduction. It’s however wrong because I’m not. And please don’t make me prove a negative and then claim that I didn’t explain it, again.
I have, in fact, explained it several times how and why you’re wrong. If you’re not actually reading or understanding what I’m saying is not on me, that’s on you.
It’s also quite ironic that you assume I take ownership of FS’ idea when you can’t dare “murder your darling”. If that means nothing to you, kindly look it up.
The point is that other people are always going to be better judges of your own ideas and concepts. You’re the one that keeps insisting that his idea is solid when it’s been logically layed out to you that they are not as solid as you think.
I’m gonna say it one last time:
Your ideas are solid, if the goal was to implement something today, which makes the whole itemization aspect significantly more respectful of the players time.
They are gathegorically not a solution to the problem of gambling being the restricting factor to whether you do, or do not get, what you want for your builds because the RNG stats on weapons are not addressed.
I’m only leaving this here because if you claim again that I did not explain it, I have this here are “proof” that you did not read what I actually wrote
You talk as if you are right and everyone else’s opinion is wrong. Every single post has been the same language.
Base stats RNG still remains in the new system, according to the info provided, so I’m not sure how you see the new system better than simply unlocking blessings.
And with my suggestion, once you have a good base weapon then you’ll never need to RNG for base ever again bucause there will be no locks. Literally zero RNG after that because blessings are simply available.
Do you want to play the game and play with the various blessings or do you want this candycrush style retentionism layered on top to treat us players like consumerist children with carrot and stick?
What is it you want? Why do you want a weapon progression system at all? It’s clearly retention bloat.
Edit: to nip this in the bud, let me make an even easier suggestion -
- all weapons base stats become flat. 100% for all weapons.
- remove locks.
- unlock all blessings.
No more RNG. Just pure fun playing with different blessings combos. They can add more blessings to spice it up.
Minimal code changes. Minimal UI changes. Melk can offer cosmetics for contracts.
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