You can melee with the flamer. It’s not great but it’s there…
honeslty flame stacks should not get buffed by zealot ability. or maybe they should, but not retrospectively. If zealot uses flamer on group of crushers presses F theys all disappear. this is bit too much. I can accept this from melta gun when it is in game but not really fitting for a flamer.
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It does need a nerf, honestly. Every time I get a zealot that knows what they’re doing with it I have to double check I’m not playing malice instead of damnation. Boring as hell, and I don’t know why anyone would want to buff anything to its level. Definitely needs a removal of the ult interraction and possibly even a flak modifier nerf. Probably not possible at this point, but it’d be cool if it was powerful dps vs most anything, but splashed instead of penetrated through an infinite number of enemies.
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Flamer needs a nerf…
However don’t forget also what makes a weapon fun.
First time I used a bolter I have thinked… great power… too great, too fun to use.
I did not like the flamer before I tested if it was OP. When I used it I took fun by seeing horde vanishing when using it.
I really think that the fun part of every weapon should be maintained. And that’s the difficult part of nerfing this weapon. Hopefully, there are plenty ways to nerf it.
Well I assume everybody wants the game to be difficult and have a level playing field between all weapons. If one weapon is out of line the answer is not to buff everything else, because then everything starts to outscale the difficulty, which makes the game boring.
Which means nerfing in those cases is the way to go no matter how anxious people are that their favorite weapon might turn out to be no longer to their liking.
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I believe damage wise the flamethrower is fine and feels good, but it indeed offers too much range for something that is supposed to be a commitment to cqb.
Flamer has no weakness as of now. The only thing that a flamer can’t kill is a sniper but let’s admit it. A sniper is no big deal, the player can just take cover and kill everything with the flamer.
Personally, flamer promotes bad game-play and does not help a player improve at all. On multiple occasions I have seen zealots just having their flamer out all the time without ever switching to their melee weapon and the sad part is… that it works. There is no counter-play for the flamer to worry about besides the occasional sniper.
There are 3 things I would suggest to help balance out the flamer’s capabilities.
- Give the flamer an overheat bar mechanic similar towards the Moonfire Bow in V2. Where if the player reaches the max output on the overheat bar, the flamer itself will have to cool down before using it again. (This will force the player to improvise or switch to their melee weapon)
- Elites should have damage-resistance to burn, but don’t make the damage-resistance too crazy. The idea is the flamer can still kill elites, but it HAS to be over a longer period of time and not have the elites die in less than 5 sec
- The burn should have a maximum stacks similar to bleed. Right now Monsters die within 10-15 sec if flamer continuously just spits fire upon them (especially even faster with the recent buff to “Blazing Away”)
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Different ammo types is, in my opinion, overcomplicated solution to “my team is bad / lacking” problem. We have communication, we can see how much ammo one have (with Numbers UI mod it is even easier), we can also talk and change loadout in lobby before mission. Playing with random people NEVER guarantees good experience and cooperation. It is not a new thing.
In Vermintide when you got melee / close range combat team specials destroyed you. Random team with 2x flamers, crusader and melee focused zealot was destined to struggle. If you consider that in Darktide you have more ranged enemies - going all short-range is and will be bad idea.
To sum it up:
- separation of ammo types will solve the problem you discribe (to some extend), but will generate new ones (flamer ammo when there is no flamer? ammo types scaling logic vs team loadout? location of ammo around the map parts?)
- source of the problem: lack of coop and communication
- proposed solution: give players tool to see item types picked by teammates (in lobby and during the match), incorporation of NumericUI mode (to some extend) into core game
This:
Flamer would stay powerful tool, but one that needs to used with care, because we are limited not only by ammo, but also the heating up of the weapon.
This would also affect Psykers flamer (they have “heating up” mechanics already).
But both changes have a great potential of nerfing usage of flames to the ground (I don’t like flamer users because flames block my sight when I try to kill priority targets when playing sharpshooter, but that does not mean I would want total elimination of it.)
That is the point. If Pyskers have a “heating up” Mechanic, shouldn’t the Flamer also have one?
From my experience on playing all 4 classes. I tried using the Purg staff with 6 stacks of Warp Charges against a Monster but the damage is still mediocre. I also do have a pretty good purg staff (if you need me to link it, I can just LMK). When I noticed that damage and burn was still bad I realized it’s better to use Brain Burst to kill monsters.
Another thing is whenever I join matches on my Pysker and I am playing with my Purg Staff alongside with a zealot that has a flamer, I feel pretty irrelevant. As the flamer does my job (as a Pysker) but better.
Both Purg and Flamer are in unison, so I do get that. Fat Shark shouldn’t just do a simple nerf to damage as it will affect both weapons, but Flamer as it stands is too powerful. That’s why the overheat bar mechanic would be fair and making a cap on the stacks of burn on enemies IMO.
Pretty sure the guy meant that a reduction of max burn stacks would also affect the Psyker Flamer (which is already much weaker due to overheat and constant charge up).
Although i am not sure why that would be, since it is part of the weapon stats and it should be possible to just reduce the max stacks for one of the two.
Scoreboard shows you ammo picked and “ammo wasted”
Ammo wasted shows you how much ammo that were in the pack and were wasted cause the player that picked them was at max.
I don’t like the scoreboard, mainly cause of score and the lack of the informations I want. However, I have let it just to see these notifications.
Agree with you about numericUI. Since I have installed it, I can understand more who should take the medicae charge…
I agree on the diagnostic. Flamer has no weakness (PS has same problem).
I agree about your propositions.
We can also add that we could reduce the range…
But, I said it several times, burn stacks and heat mecanisms are, for me, best options… especially the heat mecanism.
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no weakness? Play with him before he talks. It’s a short-range weapon, and in many scenarios you’re forced to wait behind cover.
crying for a gun that works, where that’s a rarity for a flamer in games, doesn’t make sense.
flamer probably saved your ass more times than you can count.
I played and i play with it.
No weakness means you can kill everything with it without any difficulty.
Crushers are killed with the bug of the zealot ability but, even if the bug is fixed, the flamer would permit to deal with everything else without any effort.
You kill the horde (normal) and every special / elite without any difficulties (here is the problem for me, especially mauler / scab / elites).
So, yes I know that you are vulnerable to sniper with this gun. However, the gun still has no weakness cause it can kill everything.
To be fair… I actually play with… A shotgun just to take fun. But sure, if I want to make things easier, i take a flamer in first and in second choice a bolter.
A little off-topic, but YEAH. Scoreboard and numericUI helped me understand what I do, should do or shouldn’t do.
Going back to the topic: I don’t know weapons are coded ingame, so its hard for me to estimate what can be easy fix and what could turn into whack-a-nerf game with nerfing weapons or classes to the ground.
The flamers real weakness is it’s set up time, required brace firing, long reload times, and it’s damage vs crushers and bulwarks. The Bulwarks can easily block the flames for all the hordes behind them, allowing them get right on top of you… granted that does limit the situations to which it isn’t suited greatly. You have, depending on your gun, about 5 full sprays of flames in your ammo capacity. It’s definitely the strongest zealot range slot option.
A lot of posters here are a little salty, and it doesn’t make sense to me for a coop game the level of salt in this thread. Most everyone plays veteran on damnation anyway-- almost always carrying an auto-gun and a power sword (while we’re talking about balance lol); the flamer isn’t something that imbalances the game so much that it makes zealots an auto pick in damnation.
I feel like the flamer getting it’s stagger modified to allow ragers and maulers to charge out through the flames into the squad will suffice at a step one nerf. Granted, this will probably be countered by hit mass reduction blessing or make it an auto include… which is a nerf for sure, but not devastating and assuredly a good place to start
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