I don’t consider anything a “-tide killer” unless it’s got the same heavy emphasis on melee that Vermintide and Darktide have. Thus far no other dev has managed to make a co-op game that doesn’t have rudimentary, L4D-tier melee, thus the -tide games remain alone in their niche.
Frankly watching clips of Avowed nearly a decade after VT1 launched just further cements how pathetic most devs are when it comes to making melee not a snoozefest.
If I would find a game where we have such combination between ranged and melee like in Darktide with this fast gameplay and this adrenaline… I sign
Why?
Sadly, I did not find something that is close to this. Best intense game (not DT) I played was HD2… but no melee.
I mean v2 was and still is fantastic.
I agree—Darktide places a much greater emphasis on personal skill and teamwork, rather than relying on finisher moves for kills or using stratagems to wipe out enemies. Success in Darktide depends on positioning, aiming for weak spots, timing, preparation, and the ability to adapt and prioritize threats on the fly.
Helldivers 2 didn’t click for me because its maps felt repetitive—mostly circular layouts with objectives to complete. Meanwhile, Space Marine 2 felt clunky and didn’t require the same level of refined skill, using stratagems were also something that robbed me of the personal glory that I earned from Darktide.
The key difference between SM2 and HD2 is that I knew from the trailer alone that SM2 wouldn’t surpass Darktide for me.
killing floor 3 is coming out at the end of march by the way and it’s a fun shooter like many people like, and at least for me for 100h (minimum), and to get away from it in Darktide there will have to be a cool update or interesting enough to bring me home.
But I look at all the recent Fatsharks action and realise that’s not going to happen
This feels like an odd issue to have with HD2 relative to Darktide, where the maps are literally identical every run. That’s not to say that HD2 maps couldn’t do with some additional spicing up in ways with its procedural generation, but you’re never going to play the exact same route or match twice, and have three distinct sets of enemies (each with different terrain and objective generation/modifiers and placement, and new modifiers/challenges introduced far more often than in DT), while every Darktide drop is going to be the same linear path through identical hallways and corridors every time with the same enemies, by it’s very nature an intentionally repetitive experience on rails.
No chance it will be a Darktide killer…
KF3 will already be hardly a KF2 killer 
KF2 was extremely fun and has a lot of good enemy mechanics, but KF3 is a flop sadly.
Mobile interface and cozy fonts that don’t work for KF thematicaly.
Generic looking characters and specialists system in 2025. Devs are dellusional, noone needs that Overwatch crap in every shooter (BF2042 says hello).
Bad animations - like for sprint and 3rd person ultimate activation
Lack of weight and inertia in slide and dodge, slide feels like you activate a short distance rocket boost in your ass
Guns recoil is also lacking punch, recoil animations are twitchy
Impact on hits and gore system in KF2 feels more physical and realistic
Overall game feels cheap, cartoony and arcady in a bad way, reminded me of Back4Blood a lot.
Speaking about DT killers - doesn’t matter that DT has unmatched melee combat. Us who are (or was) addicted to DT is just a fraction. Market will remember how DT was mid solely cause Fatshark can’t or don’t want to support their game properly, and the most common commentary you will see is gonna be “combat was good, but…”.
With DT combat you can build a GOTY nominee, but oh well.
If their next game is gonna be V3, i think it will be doing fine tho, cause V2 managed to get a better reputation. No wonder why, they added a Bulwark equivalent for CW’s warriors in V2 lately, and it has more attacks then Bulwark, lol.
Better reputation now, not at launch, heck timeline wise, this period was the worst for VT2, where they had released Wind of Magic which to this day is the least liked addition.
If we want to make parallel, in rn we should get Grail Knight, in 4 month, Outcast Engineer, and in 9, Chaos Waste.
It’s different in that there’s multiple different maps, but with HD2, they’re always in the form of a circle. And you travel to objectives much the same routes. Darktide, the levels are varied in design with copious amounts of cover, many different level modifiers that change the behavior of the level. (HD2 does have their own modifiers, true.)
So, we have multiple railways to follow. (how many levels do we have?)
versus a bunch of slightly different sandboxes.
At least, that’s my experience.
The thing is in V2 there was no MTX’s first (if my memory doesn’t trick me) and cosmetics are relatively cheap.
DT has a much heavier monetization system yet it takes the same time to devolop (even slower it feels, cause things like crafting should’ve been there on release)
With how DT is monetized, i would expect them to do seasons like a proper liver service game, DRG managed to do this, PoE managed too, despite being a F2P game (till the endgame phase)
Yes, cause VT2 was primarily monetized on content, missions/maps (which only the host had to purchase), weapons, and then the 5 careers.
Which FS started to move away from since Wind of Magic
What does it change? They don’t change DT prices or how shop works, means they are happy, so where is any improvement since V2? Why they changed monetization system if customers can’t see a better result? Again, DRG and PoE has the same monetization system as DT, but they have somewhat steady seasonal updates.
I wouldn’t say DRG features nearly as much meaningful seasonal updates as it did in the seasons in comparison to now, especially since GSG are working on a spin-off game now, but I will give them and GGG this - they know how to improve the base experience of the game, and not have to rely on multiple game modes that segregate the community even further than the difficulty levels do. And if there are separate game modes, they are not disconnected from the base experience enough to make you feel like you are required to change your approach to that content at all, unlike Darktide that separates people into engaging with:
This separation feels misplaced - this is basically having three separate playerbases, with distinctly problematic base game components needing to be designed/adjusted around them; or not, since FS doesn’t really make frequent balance changes - apparently it’s too much treadmill work for how little devs and designers they can manage, and how much feedback they can legitimately process.
Why is there so much playerbase segregation going on in a game that fundamentally, on each of these difficulty settings, should function basically the same, only with more difficulty hoops to jump through? Why does Havoc need a separate matchmaking system? People don’t seem to want that - they only really want more -Tide in Darktide, rather than having more disconnected, flawed difficulty-wise gamemodes introduced.
I could make the same debacle about VT2, but watch DT basically do the same thing as that game did - CW is likely the next “big thing” that will happen. That, or a fundamental balance overhaul that launched with the Weaves/Dark Omens patch, which has left a lot of the playerbase extremely unhappy way back then.
As to why they can’t change these practices willy-nilly? I think it’s worth keeping in mind that they are not working with their own IP like GSG or GGG are, and other than that it seems nothing more but an issue on managemental level, because I had the pleasure to work with the devs on testing for VT2 and I know that they are awesome people wanting to make fun experiences for fans of their games.
It’s the priorities that matter, I suppose, in the end.
Noone cares about personal traits of some particular dev. FS is a studio, and DT is a product. It doesn’t matter that people who are in charge signed a bad contract with GW or Tencent. Skill issue for them then.
Now look at the things, that has nothing to deal with managing FS connection with GW.
They spent time and other resources on developing content that brings 0 replaybility. It’s the same thing happened with Orthus Offensive. Some bozos on this forum were telling me “akshooly it’s a story mission”
DT is not an immersive story driven game. Noone needs that campaign DLC. This game needs replayability.
Oh look, it happend with Havoc now. 0 replability mode, who could guess?
If they want to make the game fun, they fundamentaly don’t undertsand what fun is.
No wonder they called DT as looter shooter (lol?). Where is my loot pinata? Where are my uniques, target farming, quests, faction reputation that gives me color schemes i can dye my cosmetics. My personal room on the Mourningstar to decorate?
Holy, just launch any other game and look at the systems that motivate (not force) people to play and grind.
I’m not even saying about how itemization was hostile towards player for 2 years.
I care about them wanting to make a good product, but the fact that they have to interface their internal plans and align them with the management, and then the IP holder, does seem like it complicates priorities for featuring ideas that people working at the company might have.
Story content, relevant or not for your argument; its implementation at least feels like it does require FS interfacing with GW. This isn’t just a reusing of assets of Magistrati Oubliette and Scab Captain boss fight that they did.
The same kind of weight is carried with the Rolling Thunder “flash mission”. Both of these features seemed like research-type of efforts to measure community engagement and/or response to different types of missions, which is an OK practice, but carries very little to expect of re: future content, especially considering how little FS communicates of their plans for the future of the game.
Agreed. The game has very little of that, past pushing beyond self-imposed challenges that some members of the community is engaging with (very little of core community) and maybe completing petty penances.
I dislike with what was implemented Havoc-wise, as it feels like it numbers-wise was designed by the hardcore community of the game that’s been active in modded scene of VT2 and wanted to essentially feature “a” modded experience in Darktide, but also it’s controlled exclusively by Fatshark, because for some reason DT cannot have modded difficulty experience that bleeds into base game matchmaking. I think I know why that is, but it boggles my mind still.
Other features, though? The most recently featured weapons are fun; the most recent map features a slightly different finale event than what we’d used to know - these are fun experiences, but they are very short-term lasting. If there’s anything DT has to do with experiences like PoE, is that people will binge it for weeks on end, then take a half-year break, and come back to it when more content is made.
I’ve also greatly enjoyed the crafting being made more-or-less deterministic with reduced RNG friction, and the classes getting distinct paths, as even as flawed these features still are, they did add to the replayability factor at the time. But that time that mattered had passed and ceases to stagnate not.
I’ve no idea why DT was called that, but it’s funny to think about these implications, especially considering the dead-and-somewhat-buried weapon attachment system.
I haven’t the slightest idea why it took so long to get the previous, atrocious system overhauled, but wink wink nudge nudge I’d wager console ports have had something to do with the delay of having meaningful content being developed, because these initiatives bring in people to play the game on different platforms, and likely leave some money in the Commodore’s Vestures. As to where that money goes - I don’t know, but that third unannounced game project of Fatshark comes to mind.
Regardless, problem is, I don’t see the devs being up to speed after having the console ports completed. We have the Havoc gamemode that, if no more relevant content and rewards, and initiatives will be developed for it, will die soon. And there’s also more fundamental content that has to be developed, which might enhance Havoc or just leave it in the dust; any balance changes will also be problematic to commence with that game mode in mind.
@FatsharkStrawHat
It would be great that feedback from @KJeraD and @weeping.moon regarding replayability, playerbase division, items, factions, rewards, and working towards something while you play, will be collected and shown to someone, so maybe some of them can be introduced to the game in the future. Also i dont think that will happen ;(
I want to type out a feedback post regarding some Havoc modifier ideas and how to make them less annoying/more engaging modifiers in general, for the record. I doubt these will be popular takes, but at least I’ll add something to the pile of issues pestering people with that gamemode in mind.