So here is the thing: look at the damage it does to what armor types and tell me if you see any problems. Spoiler alert: it is the unarmored damage. If you use flurry of the faithful and hit a flak armored enemy it drops to unarmored, this causes it to underperform. The chainsword does not have this issue. It is such an odd weakness, like how does a chain-weapon deal less damage to unarmored enemies? Yeah they work on flak but lore-wise they are really made for tearing through unarmored or lightly armored enemies, not armor yeah the evicerator is in fact designed to get through tougher armor what with its increased size and motor strength, but it wouldn’t be any less effective vs unarmored.
The buff to rager crusher, and mauler HP has really hurt the evicerator. In 13 I would have agreed that it was perfect, PERFECT, then they buffed HP, nerfed bleed, and nerfed the evicerator’s special cleave property that made it behave like an energized power sword unless you hit an elite or special where it would then bite in.
All chain weapons (and weapons with a weapon empowerment) need to be reworked to allow you to activate the special while charging a heavy attack instead of this clunky activate then attack they all share.
For Crucis, I dislike Thrust in general because the weapon is quite clearly balanced around the damn thing. If you don’t take it you need quite literally a top of the line god roll of a hammer just to one shot ragers and Crushers are a pipe dream unless you’re running martyrdom and also have fury of the faithful. Except there’s never 1 crusher is there?
Holding that 3 seconds of recoil where I can’t dodge, can’t run/slide animation lock is malarkey.
Why is that recoil? I’ve seen comparisons to Force Sword, Chain Sword, or Chain Axe but Force Sword, Chain Sword, and Chain Axe can slide and recovers quicker in general.
The heavy profile for the TH is perfect.
The heavies as they are now are beautiful at controlling hordes and mixed hordes. With adequate proficiency with the weapon you can snipe elites even inside the most densest super stacked packs. Changing even 1 of the heavies to an overhead murders it’s horde/rager loop.
However if you’re saying that only the charge heavy should be an overhead I somewhat disagree. Lights really should have that functionally.
Really the lights are just too weak.
Using a light empowered strike gives you the same recoil as a heavy despite being significantly weaker and it shouldn’t be that way.
It’s married too much to blessings or talent trees.
Oh you can control hordes just fine with heavy sweeps but you’re not actually killing them at any resembling a reasonable rate without bleed and that doubles over to controlling rager clusters.
You need
Thrust for one shotting ragers
Near god rolls for one shotting maulers and crushers and (if not using martyrdom) additionally stacks of slaughterer or headtaker and 5 stacks of sustained assault.
If you want the lights to do anything towards dreg ragers you need Thunderous unless you want to spend 15 seconds beating a single rager to death.
Wanna control rager clusters? Hammerblow or 5 stacks of Punishment
Every blessing is crazy impactful and it comes at removing power out of the base weapon in a way a LOT of other weapons don’t have to deal with. The crusher (after it’s semi recent glowup) starts strong and becomes stronger with blessings. Voidstrike staff starts strong and becomes insane. The revolver just needs two decent (not even god) rolls and now you’re one shotting nearly every elite and special in the game regardless of blessings.
Everything about the weapon sacrifices a crap ton for it’s stagger profile and it’s boss damage.
And I’m fine with it’s horde clear being dependent on bleed given it’s a stronger weapon.
But that recoil has got to go. Nearly 3 seconds of just looking at a trapper emerge from a spawn door and trap you after you dome a rager. No part of that interaction is satisfying
It sounds like you want the standard damage profile and the special activation profile bumped a bit and the weapon to not be so dependent on stacking thrust. Did I get that right?
I have still been having great success with the Evis. I think having to have full Martyr stacks to 1 shot a rager is a decent comprimise for how good its horde clear is. The bleed nerf was only towards unyielding which was both neccassary and didn’t really effect the Evisc much. It still mostly if not entirely functions like you said it does with the special attack.
I agree with this on chain weapons but not on power weapons. Powered weapons need a seperate rework, not just free powered attacks.
The only thing I want for the Eviscerator is some increased base stats when the Rampage nerf comes around so it still functions well.
Doesn’t exist, they gave up on giving us full stacks and until they correct this laziness I refuse to touch martyr.
Is that just speculation or is that confirmed? If so yeah it will need a base stat boost, anything with rampage will.
I think possibly a good change to power weapons would be the normal activation but also a sort of kinetic charge buildup where after X amount of hits it gets a free energized activation. Not a crazy buff, but a nice QoL buff so you are not always having to hit the special button every 2-3 swings or every swing in the case of crusher and power maul. Or maybe change it all together and make it an overheat style mechanic where you activate the energize and it builds up heat with over time requiring you to turn it off to cool it down hit reload to cool the weapon faster. Higher uptime but longer downtime and very long downtime if you let it completely overheat. Could then make blessings around heat management like crit strike increase or swing-speed on high heat, stuff like that. Make it a more engaging weapon to play with.
tbh, the entire zealot tree has such limited access to melee power boosts without absurd conditionals its sad.
The raw melee boosts hidden in his tree are: 20% (conditional, backstab) + 5-25% (conditional, number of previous enemies hit) + 5% (static), +20% (conditional, stamina depleted, 5s) + 5% (static), + 4-20% (conditional, number of previous attacks).
-Best case (backstabbing, having just swept 5 models at once, while also haivng run out of stamina within 5 seconds of combat, and also having hit 5 consecutive times): 90% melee damage bonus
-Worst case (fighting one enemy, face to face, not drained of stamina, first strike): 10% melee damage bonus
This is without keystones of course.
To me, this makes zealot super pigeon holed into critting or cheesing for his damage with things like martyrdom or dodging and using duelist.
Really, his melee damage boosts are all very conditional on counter intuitive play styles with martyrdom or a counter intuitive minigameme of draining stamina down, trying to cleave hordes, spam attacks, and get backstabs. Those mechanics are really at odds with the thunderhammers “I need a void in combat to be safe enough to activate and swing the hammer in safe enough setting to not get destroyed right after” (like by pushing after… but I’m supposed to have no stam for damage lol)
The fact it has no rending or brittleness, but vet has too many options for those and even ogryn gets rending on elite kill or optionally on ranged with the ability, is a true travesty. I mean FFS vet got a melee-only brittleness…what? No, give that to zealot.
They literally gave up on letting us get 9 stacks. They all but said “f- you guys, you get the same stacks you were able to get all along, that is just how it works now.” basically another damn lie. They gave us an ability that said we could get 9 stacks of 8% melee damage and 4% melee attack speed but we never could, not on anything other than the lowest difficulty. Then instead of figuring out how to make it work or taking any of the very reasonable change suggestions (including simply changing it to 7 stacks of 10% and 5% respectively) they gave us this BS lazy change.
This is why I say they just gave up on fixing the capstone, because they did. The exact same thing happened with vet’s demolition team where they f-ed up and made it not apply to the team as implied by the name and how it worked before the talent tree, instead they just gave up and made it only effect the vet since that is how they accidentally made it despite the text and previous functionality of it being a team effect.
So what. It was either never intended, or they decided it’s fine the way it is, which I agree with. Demo team I suspect was changed but they just copy and pasted the old description from the old tree and forgot to update.
Even without “muh full stacks” it’s still a fun and interesting playstyle and I don’t get why you’re still crying about it.
Brainlet take. Just lap up every change they make like a good dog and never want more from them, always allowing them to break their promises with no retort.
Do you get mad at every balance change? Is that always a “broken promise?”
They didn’t remove Martydom. They didn’t change how it works in the slightest. They just clarified at what you could actually do with it.
Why they ever put the max at 9? I don’t know. I assume it was either future proofing or miscommunication on what could be possible on the Zealot tree. But it’s not a promise in the slightest.
Additionally Martydom, already being strong, would be hilariously broken if you had 10 wounds and 2 more stacks of it.
I think martyrdom would be my preferred playstyle IF bleed for the emporer was iteratively applied across instances of damage that spanned more than one wound. Then, Id be tempted to run it and just not stress over maximizing it 24/7.
Can you post your martydom build and the weapons you use?
At this point idk if I should just make a separate thread, but sure. Also I take bleed for the Emperor still because ideally woi want to play around the 1-2 wounds remaining threshold, as thats how much health holy rev gives you.
I hear that. Don’t worry about another thread. WE kind of brought up martyrdom talking about how to balance the thunderhammer. I’m always comparing the risk of being so low on hp vs critting a lot and the safe 20% from momentum where I pretty much never play matrydom. Especially with the hammer.
The reason I switched to Marty Evisc is because I loved Marty Ironhelm before they ruined it. I was going to post that build alongside my evisc build but I don’t remember if they were very different.
Marty was more consistent for hitting BPs on the T Hammer over Inexorable so i much preferred it. I brought either a Lawbringer, Agrip shotty, or las pistol as a ranged weapon and fire nades for emergency horde clear.
Being able to 1 tap shottys with a light empowered attack feels amazing (and you shouldn’t need marty for it).
Cannot roll my eyes any harder at how braindead your take on it is. Balance change is a balance change, some of them are good others I don’t like and I will certainly voice such an objection.
They have broken so, so many promises. Crafting? Not what they promised. More classes? Still none. More regular map releases? We are only now finally getting more after several months with no new ones.
Didn’t say they did?
They objectively did change it.
We already know what you could actually do with it and don’t pretend like you weren’t confused why we couldn’t get max stacks on anything but the lowest difficulty where that damage doesn’t even matter.
Making an ability and saying “max stacks: 9” is a promise that you can get 9 stacks if you use the ability to its fullest. They gave us their reason for the reduction in the patch notes, it wasn’t “sorry we never intended this to be 9 stacks” (which would have been fine) it was “Players can’t get 9 stacks so we are reducing it to 7 so you can get max stacks.”
You cannot possibly know that because we could never get 9 stacks I mean we can’t even get 7 on damnation since 7 is max wounds and you only get a stack on wound loss. So I’ll say it again, max stacks doesn’t exist.
They have and I agree with you on that. Rectifying a mistake isn’t one of those. I feel like you’re being mad just to be mad.
Is this what you’re hung up on? Just semantic word play?
Even if you don’t like how they’ve changed it why do you refuse to use that keystone? I don’t get it.
Close, the toughness damage reduction on Martydom is huge and imo much more important than the backstab damage. It helps make sure you don’t either proc until death too often, or go down while it isn’t active.
Additionally to stagger crushers with your Fury charge you either need Hammer of the Faithful or Punishment. I usually go Punishment as hammer being locked behind a different mostly useless talent is unfortunate. Additionally I don’t always take either of those, as the T Hammers stagger and the Evsic stun lock can both usually keep you safe but it is something important to remember.
I need to do more games with it but there is a case to be made to take the corruption healing aura, as corruption damage is your biggest threat as a marty Zealot. To do that and stay effective you would probably have to give up the heal 25% of damage talent.
Or you could give up no self stun on the Evisc as well, as you don’t need to rely on Thrust, but it is a very nice talent and I’m loath to give it up.
