Give it at base some effects of thrust. Rework breakpoints. Rebalance some blessings to make them more useful, i guess, but the base weapon needs to be stronger regardless.
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God no please not this it would then have zero horde-control.
I think I either made a feedback post or comments something like this. Yeah it was fine in 13, in fact it was amazing, perfect even. Then the elites got a massive buff to HP and suddenly it takes on average 3 charged special heavy hits to kill a crusher and 2-3 to kill rages and maulers. So it takes on average 1-2 more special hits to kill the things it is supposed to be good at killing with the very high risk special attack.
They need thunderous blessing buffed (20% isn’t enough given how many other classes are allowed to apply). Or removed and make the special attack just apply the thunderous effect as a base thing the special attack does. If the special hit the enemy and applied 20-50% brittleness based light attack or how charged the heavy attack was that would actually probably make the things they suffer against right now suddenly back to a 2-shot, problem solved.
That said:
I said it back in 13, I really want a TH rework. Currently the Ironhelm is just a weaker cursis that can get through a couple fodder enemies before releasing the clap. This is lame.
Crusis should have decent performance (like it currently does) unactivated and annihilate when activated It should no more than 2-shot anything short of bosses and monstrosities on damnation given the massive downside of that recoil leaving you vulnerable.
The Ironhelm needs to be changed from a worse crusis that cleaves a bit with special activation to actually just being a cleave machine that reaonably deals with elites but is mainly for horde-clear/CC. The special should make it behave more like a power sword, giving it basically no damage drop-off to cleaved targets. This way it is actually a choice between the two hammers.
The alternative is to make the light attacks not discharge but instead result in merely empowered strikes and make the heavy attacks discharge on contact with elites and specials.
This way thammers just become a better eviscirator. Why in the world i would pick evis when this.
Imo, they should just rework the entire thammer activation.
Off topic. This is about thunder hammers. The evicerator needs a rework too.
But sure I’ll tell you: Because the evocator swings faster and deals more damage on non-special attacks. The power sword exists yet players still use other weapons on vet so maybe this is just incredibly flawed logic on your part?
But I do have an entire feedback post talking about some zealot weapons that I realized are actually terrible because of their interaction with fury of the faithful (spoilers it makes them deal less damage because flack->unarmored oh no the weapon deals less damage to unarmored for no reason… oh look the evicerator is on that list!)
That…is literally what I said.
My point is, the “snipe the single special by cleaving trough the horde” is literally the eviscirator’s thing. Making another weapon that is better at that role is inderectly making evis worse because why would you ever pick a weapon that is worse when you have a better one? Imo, to preserve the identity, thammers can become the “delete a small tight group of enemies”. This will make them good (with proper damage numbers ofc) and actually make the weapon have it’s own identity instead of just being “evis but better”.
Powersword is just crap lmao, why would you even bring it up.
Bleed, it swings faster.
Like I said the evicerator is in need of adjustment currently anyway.
The largest problem with the TH is actually the crusher/power maul existing. Honestly I think the TH would be far better if it had that shockwave on clap in addition to the high single-target damage but alas that exists in the form of the (still terrible even after buffs and reworks) crusher.
Someone sucks with the powersword and it shows. Power sword unenergized sucks, arguably one of the worst weapons after they nerfed its unenergized heavy attack but energized with a brittleness and rending build it tears through absolutely everything with zero effort. It 3 shots crushers with weakspot hits faster than the TH can get off the two hits that still probably won’t kill it. It clears hordes easily, it deals with ragers, maulers, mutants, you name it it just works with the right build.
Why would I bring it up? Because I was advocating for a similar ability to be used for the ironhelm or for special light attacks, making the heavy attacks the big single target hit.
But you were so hung up on evicerator that you probably didn’t even read that bit. I didn’t just suggest one rework option. I suggested three approaches. A Simple one, one to distinguish the two types, and one to just change how the special functions in relation to light or heavy.
If the weapon requires “the right build” to just work then it’s crap. Stop with the copium, powersword needs a rework too. Especially the part of having to activate it again and again. Giving this mechanic as is to thammer will just ruin the weapon.
That’s kinda what i proposed if you actually read the topic.
I think you misunderstood me. I’m saying give the charged heavy, and only that, the overhead bonk. This is because you only charge the Crucis when you want to special snipe anyway. The uncharged ‘sweep’ that cc’s stuff stays.
This is pretty close to what I’d like to see, so I’ll just add a +1 here for what it’s worth.
I don’t think hammers need more cleave, and if you want that then you should probably either play with ironhelm or just find another weapon. Thunder hammers do not need to be more like other weapons, they just need to be better at what they do.
This would be the simplest way of solving the problem with thrust being so ubiquitous. I can already smell the next ‘break the locks’ thread coming when Fatshark realizes that in order to do this they’ll have to rework thrust to something completely different instead, which in turn affects every hammer with thrust locked in. That’s actually why I think they won’t do it, if you ask me.
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I think that It should just change to overhead when the special is active. No reason to have a unique charged heavy attack. When energized it should just make all attacks be strikedown.
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Nonono thrust should not be on all TH, thunderous should be baked into all TH special attacks kind of a no-brainer.
That’s…what I’m saying? ‘Charged’ means the special.
My guy you are the one coping.
It doesn’t only work on the right build. I didn’t say the right build is required, I said it works with the right build. It sucks if you don’t energize it even on the right build. Do I think that makes the entire weapon crap? No, I do think they need to revert that heavy attack nerf though.
You don’t like suggestions because you think it steps on the evicerator’s toes but when I state the change I would actually like and also the reason I feel it can’t happen (because it steps on the crusher’s toes) you say “that is what I want.”
Hypocrite.
Then say special. Charged attack usually refers to holding heavy attack longer like for using thrust. Or energized attack.
But that would make unpowered Crucis crap vs horde.
Here I have to disagree somewhat. I get your point, but the eviscerator has a couple neat gimmicks, the ability to apply bleeds, on top of being a top tier standard combat profile weapon. The bleeds of course have synergy with zealot talents as well. The evis is fantastic rn and fits right into a zealot build wonderfully. I think thats why it’s a popular choice right now.
Ogryn’s have something like thrust in their talent tree. When I see their tree, I sometimes think “wow, access to some of this would totally fix the thunder hammer” lol.
Personally, I’d just as soon have fat-shark fiddle around with the base numbers on the thunder hammer than bake in a blessings and stuff like that. Don’t you think that would be simpler just to raise the armor pen vs carapace and a bump to the damage ceiling scaling then changing a few numbers in some tables on the special activation damage profile?
Can you explain to me why you think this. The Eviscerator is in the best place it has ever been. It feels amazing to use and requires some practice to be able to get the shredding attacks done safely, but you get rewarded if you do.
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Yes, absolutely.
My comment was a bit off-topic, and I think that Thrush when it was bugged felt incredibly good to play with so baking the mechanic into TH with a much higher modifier (like 40%/stack) would feel great even if the weapon has to be readjusted.
If they just want to make it usable good, then changing a few numbers on base damage Unyielding and Carapace so it can one-shot Crushers with the right setup (without ult) and doesn’t just murder bosses too fast would be much easier to do.
On the topic of baking in “mandatory blessings” in general I think the main example is the Power Sword. Power Cycler is mandatory, and reducing the weapon to 1 charge without the blessing was an incredibly bad change.
Currently, the weapon is balanced around the mandatory Cycler blessing suffocating any possibility of combining blessings in interesting ways similar to how Thrush affects TH (but even more restrictively than TH since you can build a TH with Headtaker and Slaughterer).
Oh that’s a really good point. Unyielding damage bump could fix it and be a really tidy fix, too. A general bump to thrust on the thunder hammer could maybe do it too, so that slower plodding dramatic swing pattern that characterizes the hammer right now is unaffected.
Removing the lyncpin blessing consideration could be nice. Power cycler being mandatory does indeed change that thing from a situationally passing weapon to beast though haha.