I think we all have different ideas about how powerful weapons in the game should be, but I think we can all at least agree that it’s more fun when each weapon has comparable strengths and weaknesses.
Now some people think the moonfire is just so much better than the others that it just becomes a default pick, which homogenizes the ranged gameplay.
You might not agree with that at all, or you might agree but think it’s the other bows that are underpowered.
Regardless, I don’t think anyone really wants to put moonfire in a place where it isn’t fun. But it’s a tricky balance.
well this one time we were down to two of us between me and an iron breaker and horde kept pushing on us in a small corridor from both sides and ironbreaker was out of ult so everytime I switched to my bow I kept getting damaged and barely land one shot on the fire rat couldnt do it again because you know how to screen shakes when you get hit. we were low on health anyway before I could kill him we were overrun not to mention cooked gassed and riddle with bullets.
What is your actual point here? That it can’t save you from every situation no matter how dire? Which Elf weapon exactly would have gotten you out of that situation? Personally if I’m under pressure I’d say being able to body shot everything with no ammo concerns is a pretty huge positive. Regardless if Moonfire has at least some weaknesses that seems healthy.
I get you like the weapon and don’t want to see it nerfed, but this just looks like grasping at straws TBH. Please consider if you actually think Moonfire is in line with the other ranged weapons, or if this is a kneejerk reaction to having something you like under nerf threat.
no point whatsoever. someone above asked me how come I couldnt shoot something twice in a row and wanted me to explain the situation. I dont actually care if it gets nerfed or not I just kind of find refreshing to not looking for ammo every sec. I played on cata a few times with it but I was at the chaos wastes so it was either not red or properties and trait was all over the place so it didnt one shot anything exept for when I headshot a leech or blightstormer. I dont know how it fares in regular adventure missions. why is it bothering you so much? its not like it steals all the special kills if there is a BH and RV with crossbow/handgun. its a fun weapon. charge shot on patrol or horde its like a mini firebomb. its boss damage reminds me of Sienna’s beam staff thats all it got going for it. not like trollhammer torpedo which deals a big chunk of damage to boss or lay waste to patrols and chaos warriors.
By “it” are you referring to your defence of the bow, or the bow being overpowered?
I’ll assume the latter. Because regardless of what you think, balance very much matters in a PvE game, it’s close to being as important as in PvP games. I’m not going to argue with you on this assertion beyond this post because it should be obvious frankly.
Ignoring balance to pursue power fantasy in a game is juvenile, and leads to a boring, shallow game with with a less satisfying skill curve. I like the challenge in Vermintide, and patching it out through overpowered DLC weapons isn’t fun. To head off the inevitable “if you don’t enjoy it don’t use it” argument, I’d remind you it’s the game’s job to provide challenge, I shouldn’t have to handicap myself/avoid using a weapon I paid for to keep things challenging. I don’t want a dull meta where one ranged weapon is always the right choice on Shade and HM, that does nothing but hurt the game.
I get your points but its surprising that you only mention Moonfire Bow and nothing else while Long Bow and Hagbane still performs better in their respective role. I’m seeing Krubers using only Spear and Shield ever since the dlc come out or chaos warriors getting deleted by trollhammer torpedo the moment a dwarf lay eyes on them and damn dont even let me start on Griffonfoot on BH. So will you be happy if Moonfire is restricted to WS? I think not. if they nerf it too much you’ll just drop it and dont use it. unlike you I use whatever weapons I like instead of whats meta like 1h swords and stuff and I happen to enjoy this bow on WS despite the Longbow or Hagbane being obviously better choices for the career. so yes I know you dont want me to say it but you’re right “if you don’t enjoy it don’t use it” sorry. you can avoid using it and use whatever you enjoy instead of trying to keep up with meta. I do that all the time when I play a game. if I think something is game breaking or making everything too easy I just ignore it. You cant expect a game to keep up with your level of talent and keep you happy. you can choose to challenge yourself. if that sounds like handicaping yourself to you and maybe you’re not as good as you think at the game. I already told you I dont care if it gets nerfed. its not like it was here yesterday. I’ll switch to my longbow again. if its too good I’m sure they’ll tune it down someday until then I’m gonna enjoy its different mechanics. you talk about it like its somekind get out of jail free card but let me tell you its not. it will let you down as much as it save your ass. 5 charged shots and you’re done that means you better not miss or there better not more specials elites etc and prey to god your team mates didnt run out of ammo.
Look at the thread title, I’m trying to stay in topic. I agree a number of things are overtuned including hagbane, longbow not so much. Moonfire is easily the most power creep weapon out of the 5 in Forgotten relics, it’s not even close.
No, I want more build diversity, not less. I wrote further up in the thread what I’d like to see happen with Moonfire, shouldn’t be hard to find if you scroll up.
Huge assumption here, and pretty rude. I run off meta stuff all the time. I just also like to not feel like I’m gimping myself with some setups.
Not what I said. Just want a reasonable level of balance. Doesn’t seem like too much to ask for.
I don’t think I’m particularly good at all lol. I’m only competent at Cata and I’ve never dipped into modded difficulties or anything like that. I can still tell if something overperforms and would still like balance.
I also wasn’t saying/suggesting that lol. I just want multiple roughly comparable options for each class, not one that is always the unambiguous correct choice when trying to win. Moonfire won’t hard carry you, but it is currently the obvious choice for shade and HM. It outcompetes their other options hard while requiring little to no breakpoint investment. It’s simply overtuned. Despite what you seem to think, I’m not terribly bothered by it though I do hope it gets tuned down. I’m more bothered by someone wandering into a discussion thread and throwing around old fallacies like “balance doesn’t matter in a PvE game”.
That’s fine. This has pretty well run its course though so I’m done. No offence intended by any of my posts, hopefully we understand each other decently by this point.
On Shade and Handmaiden, it’s pretty much the perfect weapon. I’ve had HM’s on my team use it, and seeing it more in action tells me why it’s so good. Let’s compare it to longbow:
Infinite ammo, when hagbane is incredibly limited by it, and longbow needs headshots to sustain
Moonfire bow can forego headshots completely, meaning lower skill floor
Has practically all the special killing power you’d ever need as an HM or Shade, assuming you aren’t doing an intense True Solo run. Meaning the limited amount of shots stored is not a big disadvantage.
Has similar crowd control to hagbane whereas longbow has none
Can spam it on any enemy, like ambient or horde elites, unlike longbow
Singlehandledly turns HM into a monster killer, unlike longbow
All that for no investment in power
Every benefit that longbow brings, moonfire bow has it for less investment and skill needed, + it has properties of hagbane, the massive benefit of infinite ammo, and good monster damage for a career that’s not known as a monster killer. You can kite a monster around infinitely and keep shooting loads into their eyes for massive deeps. I played with an HM who ended with 11k monster damage on Twitch Cataclysm. We didn’t have any other monster killer, but that was fine cause HM now fulfilled that role, with only moonfire bow needed.
Well as @alsozara stated, it would not really matter what weapon combination/setup you would have here. You are pretty much dead because of earlier misplays and not because of the weapon choice or because how weak/powerful it is.
With old bloodfetcher hagbane was one of best option for shade just because how much bloodfetcher gave value to hagbane.
Hagbane is still strongest elf weapon with biggest drawback being abysmall small amount of ammo.
I always found hagbane unmanageable due to the small amount of ammo. IMHO it just has too few pros and a whole lot of cons.
Dropping extra 25% dmg for a measly arrow here and there is more of a disadvantage.
It was nearly all ammo from just smacking horde or few elites, ammo wasnt problem with it. Even high ammo demand weapons didnt had problem, now its kinda useless with internal cooldown
That 25% extra damage doesnt actually help all that many breakpoints unfortunately or so i was told, the talent has been a dead fish all along…much like all the talents on that row given how she cant really backstab reliably without something like cloak of mist.
Hagbane with old bloodfletcher (gave enough ammo even with few procs) meanwhile gave her the ability to use barrage hagbane for a sizeable poison damage chunk out of a monster healthbar + barrage for her next infiltrate hit which was pretty big back then.
The ability to badly damage and disrupt hyperdense hordes was also a happy plus.