Monsters shouldn't be able to throw you off cliffs

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
1

With how janky their animations can be as well as their hitboxes they shouldn’t just be able to lob you off a cliff to instant death. Consider this, spawn grabs you to throw you, you’re with all bots so none of them will stun or throw a bomb (because bots) and thusly you just get yeeted off a cliff because that’s where the spawn throws you and you die at full HP with the other 3 bots now aimlessly wandering around. Restart. That really shouldn’t be a restart but it is a restart. There should be a “hard” wall when a monster decides to throw you (or just yeet you in general, i’ve seen it yeet players to the moon and off the map when they block the strike from the monster, blocking a strike shouldn’t be that much of a punishment especially when they can just do a full 360 in a split second and hit you mid animation). In a way it feels as if you’re no longer on earth or have any weight to you at all and you just fly in a straight line off the map. Obviously this won’t get implemented but i felt like i’ve seen this happen too many times and it ruin too many runs for it to just be “part of the game”. since it feels like there’s really nothing you can do if a monster just decides it wants you dead in this way.

edit: i guess this mainly pertains to CW with its BS ledges but I’ve seen this happen quite a bit with the regular maps as well. There seems to be a lot of “dead space” when it comes to ledges and a lot of “leeway” as to what’s going to give you the animation and what’s just going to yeet you. Would prefer if it’s just the animation always that way you can actually recover instead of it just being “hey you’re dead because the boss decided to switch aggro”

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It’s their best feature. Same for Muties and others in Darktide. The fun never ends.

3

They should throw you off cliffs because the alternative of them throwing you off a cliff and your character magically stopping short by an invisible wall is ugly and in-immersive.

See, sounds like the REAL problem and far easier solution here is to improve the cruddy AI.

Or as I suggested long ago, allow Solo players to alternate control from one character to another with the press of a button so if their character gets grabbed they can swap to another character to free the caught one

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4

Outside of Chaos Wastes I’d say this is manageable.

On Chaos Wastes, something should be done about it certainly, with ledges being pretty much everywhere and maps often having bottlenecks.

On Citadel of Eternity they should really just add a fence. Call me cheap, but losing ~2-3 hour run in such a way is just sad.

5

Its a skill issue.
We can play more carefully to avoid getting ledged.

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As someone who’s had plenty of well-played successful solo runs ended by a chaos spawn lobbing me off of a bridge… it is kind of a skill issue, lol. I don’t think there’s really an easy alternative to death by cliff.
I do wish bots were more conservative with their abilities, or their AI was more effective in general. SOTT bots constantly double-cast their ultimate against specials for no reason and Ironbreaker bots keep using Impenetrable versus a few slave rats. Since the “AI Improvement” mod stopped working it’s been rough, but at least it’s lead to me having to become better to compensate.

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I totally agree on that. IMO the monsters should be able to throw you off a cliff. It adds some map awareness and positioning while fighting should matter. BUT the Bot-AI should be really improved so if they have bombs they should throw it to save you. I am allways taking Merc, Unchained and IB as bots, their Ultimates can save you in those situations, as well as being disabled by specials, in addition they also give you temp-health :slight_smile:

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You won’t have any disagreements from me here, I wish the bots weren’t so stupid and actually uses their specials conservatively.

…the funny part here being despite the stupidity of the bots, they’re STILL more reliable and trustworthy than the garbage you run into on quickplay games lol

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Yeah, that’s another problem with quick-play games. I can usually make it through a map with bots easier than players despite situations like the one you mentioned. I really try not to have my back to a spot where I can get knocked off, but with the hordes, you can’t always control your position no matter how good you are. Elites, hordes, and specials sometimes have more control over where you’re going to end up fighting than you do.

One thing that massively helps is either having the ability to massively stagger elites and hordes or a movement ability or both (Invis and group stagger ults too). Also, sniping every special as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Lately, I’ve been favoring career builds that check every box for staying alive, and that doesn’t necessarily mean using the brokenly OP stuff. Make something with special sniping, dodge, stamina, stagger, and an ult that works kind of like a get-out-of-jail-free card.

A good example is Handgun Huntsman. The handgun is extremely fast for one-shotting specials and black rats with a little headshot practice with the hipshot fire-rate, I tend to do more damage with it than the longbow against monsters and can instantly wipe out specials at close to moderate ranges, and it goes through shields. Then for melee, I use the Sword and Mace because it’s arguably the best melee weapon in the game, but Huntsman gets THP from stagger, the most powerful THP talent (I know I said doesn’t have to be OP stuff, but I love how well Sword and Mace works for huntsman since it gives him both massive stagger and horde clear). You can block-cancel and one-two hordes, black rats, and maulers staggering them all to refresh your THP. The invisibility works great as a panic button for situations where I need to snipe a special, but I’m locked in melee or if I’m completely surrounded or both and then I can casually snipe fpr a few seconds.
So he can stagger, has decent dodge radius even with a dual-wield weapon, excellent special sniping, and his invisibility is his get-out-of-jail-free ult.

Another one is Slayer with throwing axes. I’ve gotten decent enough with throwing axes to reliably snipe most specials except the longest-range blightstormers. With Trophy Hunter granting cooldown at max stacks, I can use his ult before it even wears off and he both kills and staggers elites very quickly, using dual axes/hammers or one-handed axe/hammer, you’ll have decent dodge.

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i think a lot of people are just thinking of fighting a monster in a vacuum, they’re forgetting that special spawns, elites, etc. can funnel you down to an area you originally didn’t even plan on going and that’s just because that’s how the flow of battle has taken you. It’s highly unlikely for any person to completely avoid all cliffs and i agree it’s part of gameplay. Issue comes when there’s things like small cliffs or, even if the monster just decides to charge you, it’ll knock you back. Nothing you can really do about a rat ogre just jump slamming you off a cliff as soon as it sights you. And that’s just that. Nothing to be mad about that’s just how it goes. Would it be nice if there was an alternative? Sure. But again, i still think people are putting players in a situation where they’re ONLY just fighting a monster. Wherein, yea, if you get knocked off a cliff that’s your own fault cuz it’s literally the only thing you really need to focus on minus some adds that trickle in from the fringes. But that’s an ideal situation. Most of the time you’re not gonna have an ideal situation. I’d be more in favor of it just snapping you into the “falling off a cliff” animation as at least there’s a chance for the others to save you.

11

Disagree. I like the mechanic. Even thinking about weaves on the small Arena in the end with a lot of possibilities to get kicked off and three minotaurs,i still wouldn’t want it gone.

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If you dont decide the flaw of battle you did some wrong decision making imo.

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I mean, that’s the beauty of the gameplay.

Where it happens and when is one of the things that makes this game uniquely fun, every playthrough is slightly different. Sometimes a Stormfiend spawns in a room and he’s a complete cake walk, but sometimes it spawns in a tunnel and your ****ED.

In your situation where a rat ogre is prime to send you flying off a cliff, it can feel unfair, but that’s the beauty of the game’s randomness. In that situation it’s up to the players to adapt to the situation they found themselves.

They could find a way to clear a path through the elites specials and chaff to reposition in, dash away with the career skill, make space with a bomb or high stagger weapon, or one of the bot teammates could save your butt by drawing aggro or using a staggering skill. Or the player just accepts that putting himself in that situation was a bad idea and figure out how he could have avoided that in the first place.

…bugs and glitches aside of course.

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honestly i think that’s wrong unless you play on something lower than legend then i’d agree with you since the elites aren’t as strong and monster spawns aren’t as frequent. On legend on cata you can get quite a few specials and elites mixed into a mob that you’re not going to always get a choice to go down a certain hallway; throw a monster in there and you’re no longer in control of the flow of battle. I know for certain you’ve taken cover while a ratling shoots up a hallway just to wait until his gun jams or needs to reload. You’re not controlling the flow of battle there so are you making the wrong decision by taking cover? You’re honestly making the right decision by FOLLOWING the flow of the battle rather than just outright controlling it. Coming back to the original discussion you don’t always control when a monster spawns and that is fine, someone else on here is saying something about the “randomness” component of it. That’s not the part I dislike, that’s actually one of that parts I like about the game is that each run can be different. The part i don’t like is that a monster can just bloop you out of existence because you’re near an edge, you don’t even have to be standing next to it. I’ve seen people get sent literally flying through the air because they blocked a rat ogre that charged at them. And again i’m not saying it’s a bad thing that happens. I’d just like a chance to recover the round by allowing a bot to rescue us from the ledge.