Mods and how Fatshark should handle them, in your opinion (2)

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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My stance on mod is: I would rather allow people to cheat in the game and play the way they want to (excepting server-modifying, of course,) than forbid people access to automation tools that might, say, help with RSI.

If a person knows where every book on the map is, I don’t care. If a person knows where every special/elite is, what does it change since you still have to kill them? Plus, executioner stance is this anyways. Bolters can’t shoot through all walls to the best of my knowledge, for example.

There isn’t a single mod I’ve seen so far that is so egregious as for me to want it banned. Hell, some mods are so important I want Fatshark to actually implement it. Namely Weapon Customization so guns like the helbore can have a better sight. Mind you, I don’t use it to mod weapons to have bayonets even though I really want most ranged weapons to have a bayonet. I digress.

In the absence of a perfect game, mods are the solution. In the absence of perfect mod enforcement, laissez faire is the best stance.

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This was never on the chopping block…

P.S.

Take some time to think on this…

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Yes but, look at VT2. The whitelist system meant those mods to help with RSI never were allowed. Whitelisted mods were a joke, incomplete, took forever to get done, and broke every patch.

So yes, it very much is on the chopping block.

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Didn’t VT2 have that stuff built in? I remember there being all kinds of auto options in the base game menu

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If it did, it was so heavily buried in the settings that I never saw it. Spam clicking was basically mandatory as far as I am aware.

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there were never such options
(but macros were allowed, which is something external that not lot of people know how to setup etc.) so i understand the Taranok point, cause mods are more accessible.

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Simply not true.
You don’t need a mod to auto-click, macros exist with every mouse SW and Auto Hotkey is basically legacy software now. FS has never cared about macros, they made that abundantly clear in the past as it always came up, certainly not RSI which nobody objects to.

The current stupid click “mod” is just a collection of poorly written macros for the awful Razer Synapse (mouse + SW), but the author decided to slip the shoot-quell spam macro (a poor version of it) as part of it and call it “accessibility”. Anybody can do this with any number of different SW packages dating back decades. It’s also hilarious that a popular streamer (maybe him) endorsed it, maybe not aware that it also included the hated quell-spam macro in there.
This streamer considers weapon customization mods cheats because modding out the sights (that you do) are bypassing FS balance in his opinion (a user said), but he doesn’t care if other use it, even if he did, so what all he can do is state it.

In fact, by your criteria, and others’, the wallhack ESP mod that got pulled shouldn’t be pulled; why was it? Call it “accessibility” and re-post it, maybe under an alias or a more “well known” author handle. The “sanctioned” mod system sucked and was too slow, but radars and other ESP mods were never on the menu either, people were given a hand here, but they took the whole arm.

There are other options on the table, always have been here it’s not a “all mods allowed” or “no mods allowed” binary choice. Call the ultra cheeze and cheats what they are, you don’t need to sugar coat it, they ain’t going anywhere so you don’t have to be afraid of collateral damage.

You wanna use the ~cheaty mods? Go ahead, nobody can stop you
but FS and they don’t intend to, but at least be honest with yourselves. Had even just a few people been honest initially, we’d be in a better situation and ~nobody would have uttered a peep. I’m sure a few modders did self-police and kudos for having ethics, a few did not choose to do so, and we all know what the offending mods are.

The community can however still choose to play its expected part and self-police which is the little power it holds: discussions and calling out the mega-cheeze and cheats, if only for the sake of debates and honesty; sunlight is the best disinfectant. Don’t want to participate in a discussion? No problema, others may want to.
The whole self-policing would have been valuable information to have from the beginning.

Spidey Sense alone has 3k unique downloads since Oct, that tells you pretty much all you need to know, even accounting for the actual hearing impaired or those with actual (occasional) missing sounds; cue excuses.

P.S. the next time someone complains about the stealth loner who runs off to Narnia and leaves the team hanging, remember, odds are they know exactly where all the “punishing” specials are, no need to look or listen, just peek at radar.

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expect it isn’t occasional but some spots have 100% constant issues where sound cues get muffled and removed, even pinged you showing the spot. and there are many.

here if someone wants to see the “occasional” missing sounds cue like mentioned above.

and again the subjectivity part, considering some people may think your mods can be cheaty cause removing visual effects, like “i wanna see” mod and alike, some people could argue those type of mods can make the game way easier than intended ("but it’s for photo-sensitivity health reasons, they aren’t excuses!) so doesn’t make sense your whole thing, it’s just qol and how you want to play. even with all the mods you wouldn’t even last anyway in a match nor depend by those. not to blast, but because how really are meaningless these things, you are just overreacting. and just trying effortlessly to uphold your point just because triggered and grumpy about it.

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Occassional missing sound cues which happen every mission especially on histg missions

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as per the last update blog

“(Note: Ogryns soon will no longer be suffering from the dark.)”

finally you will get some flashlight too, you deserve it, after having used weapon customization with flashlight to bypass lights out (not an excuse! game design is bad, like the issues with the sound cues!), finally becoming an official feature perhaps. :thinking:

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ps: fun fact
accessibility caption mod, was about to be sanctioned / implemented officially in Vermintide 2
and it was being developed by a modder altogether with the former CM of VT2.
mod that has widely requested by everyone to be even a core feature. but unluckily didn’t come in, cause as you can know, sanctioning system is just slow and sadly now the former CM of VT2 left for personal reasons. so probably it won’t be a thing despite all the people needing the mod to play because health reasons. (and not limited to, cause there can be many reasons, even bad vision really) not only hearing impared people…
(again the thing where you are doing bad comparisons, “you need to be exclusively deaf to use this mod, otherwise you are cheating”) when there can be so many reasons for it, and you shouldn’t care what people have, if people use the mods they want.

Spidey Sense if it is allowed, it is also because Fatshark had a redemption arc.
because they always wanted to do something about it in past, and the former CM worked with the modder to make it a reality.

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what 34% btw? you are adding all questions from the poll or what?
it’s 57% vs 15%… not surprising to know it was a vocal minority.

i can give you 19% max since 2 questions were similar but still. too way low.

the “I think the mod policy is sometimes not strictly enforced and I would like to see this fixed”
doesn’t count cause not related in the specific with spidey sense etc.

only 2 questions are mentioning the prohibition of spidey sense which currently is 15% and 4%

it isn’t polarizing

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Eh, I guess that’s fine then it’s not a majority disliking certain mods. Heavily modded players can just do whatever they want with the game, the majority makes the rules after all! Screw vanilla and people who use small inconsequential QOL stuff… even though most vanilla players probably don’t even visit the forums, so we’ll never know how accurate the split is.

Even though everyone paid for the same game, even though modding is a secondary feature in most games, for some reason it’s unmodded players who should crawl away and find their own corner to sit in, while having no control over their experience.

You can see that some people really advocating for mods on the forums have zero respect and zero compassion towards people with a different opinion. Which is kinda ironic, or not at all. People are happy to have freedom to do anything they see fit, but they’re fine with taking it away from others.

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The mods on Nexus just don’t give much of an advantage. Not even if you use every dang one. And if you feel someone is harming your experience through the use of a mod, report them.

Console players can turn off crossplay. Anyone, even people who hate smite psykers or whatever, can make their own groups with friends or like-minded strangers on the Discord.

This is pretty unfair and unreasonable imo, like gpk calling people sociopathic and claiming they lack morals/ethics/backbone because they’re in favor of a liberal modding policy.

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How much advantage is enough to make it count then? Who decides that? Fatshark who are clearly not infallible and make bad judgements every now and then on everything in their games? In my opinion, normal scopes on revolver or hellbores is enough of an advantage. Let alone some other mods.

I don’t really disagree with what you said here and in the previous post, it is what it is I guess. I don’t wanna fight the endless comment section battle with everyone here.

I said my piece on wanting to meet people halfway, but for some reason no one but you liked my post or engaged with my opinion. I know why, because people just want everything their way and don’t care about the opposite side at all. You can see how condescending they look at people not using mods. “Ugh… unmodded plebes or mod haters.” Which actually downplays and twists what some of us saying, since I also use some of the mods and I don’t want them to be banned…

Yeah, maybe gpkgpk was rude in his other posts, I don’t know, I don’t really read into every post. We’re not friends or anything. But then again, one other guy claimed we’re ableists in other thread because we didn’t like Spidey Sense, so… I guess the ship sails both ways.

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Ultimately, yes, FS has the final say. But the community has also stepped in to prevent things they consider over the line. Two examples are the first version of Always Attack First being fixed by the mod’s creator to prevent the OP attack speed that version allowed and the wall hack mod being flagged on Nexus until it was removed.

As you’ve touched on, what mods are (un)acceptable is very personal. But if FS are going to actually have control over what mods people use, it’s going to be bad for people who use any mods…and yea, pretty much everyone agrees that we don’t want anti-cheat back (even FS).

I think it’s mostly because every possibly permutation of the arguments from both sides has been completely played out in the threads over the last 2 weeks. But I understand your frustration.

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There will always be a war between modders and purists (and more moderate viewpoints stuck as casualties in the middle).

The best thing we can do is find a compromise where both parties are “sort of” happy.

It wasn’t the case in VT1 where explicit cheat mods existed.

It wasn’t the case in VT2 where fatshark were overly restrictive about sanctioning and also extremely slow to boot.

What we have now in darktide is a sort of balance between those two previous extremes. Though obviously not perfect, hence threads like these. Further work might be needed.

Whatever we do moving forward should be incremental, to avoid heading into another extreme once again.

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Something that I think is worth noting is that VT1 didn’t just start there. It also got increasingly cheaty mods and eventually other modders started including counter-mods that act as an anti-cheat in their mod packs, that would specifically prevent certain cheats. Interestingly the counter-cheat modpacks also included mods that some players considered cheats (stuff like increasing rewards from missions). If it sounds like a total headache to you now, imagine the community discussions about it at the time while these developments occured.

Nowadays, if you play the original Vermintide with randoms, you have a good chance of coming across cheaters who will just revive themselves or other party members constantly. I think it’s safe to say that this level of impact should be avoided by Darktide, and if nothing else, the community being “up in arms” about this topic (really just discussing it and making sure cheats don’t slip through) is already a huge help towards preventing that. It actively lessens the fun you can have with randoms because the cheaters do become more and more as the games playerbase shrinks.

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