Melee or range?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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I posted something 1 day ago that said the zealot is the biggest victim in the current game state.

I might have used some inappropriate examples and misled what I wanted to say.

Yes, Zealot is strong at this moment. yes, Zealot has the highest mobility. and Zealot may be able to pull off some of the things others can’t. I totally agree with these.

But, can any of you deny that melee has a significantly higher risk than range and at the same time significantly lower reward compared to the high risk? and by reward, I mean the damage you have done.

And just in case some people ask why is it all about damage? Simply because that’s how the game designed, before the void staff still op, I had a chance to play some 4 void staff games, and simply nothing can get close to you and this is on the maelstrom with 83000 reward, nurgle blessing, scab only most melee modifiers. and nothing can get close to any of us, even at a point we facing over 10 plus crushers 10 plus maulers 10 plus bulwarks, and over 20 plus ragers, nothing can get close to us.

It just simply tells me a thing, if your damage can overwhelm the enemy, there is no such thing as risk.

And, after all, Zealot is the only one that can’t actually come out with a full-range build, please don’t tell me that you are playing a full-range build now as Zealot, there is no such a thing because you don’t have the perk to do so, you are not picking your perk base on range weapon, you just picking some perks because you don’t have an option. Just go and check the ogryn right side whole perk tree and tell me you have the same amount of options when you want to build a range Zealot.

All I want to say is whether they should buff the melee to a point where the risk we take equals the reward we getting, or please give Zealot a proper range build option by changing the talent tree.

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Says the archetype that has an ostensibly melee ult give an additional level of armour piercing to ranged attacks for the entire ult’s uptime that isn’t a bug.

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Hot off the heels of “I want 100% range ammo uptime even on hordes because Psyker|Zealot” comes this.

The “reward” is not just the damage done, it’s the up-time/sustainability , damage resistance and toughness replenishment affecting that up-time; zealot is in a good place and fun to play.

I have zero interest in a zealot “ranged” tree myself, but it would benefit from a ranged weapon once-over after the vet ammo aura change, e.g. looking at base ammo reserves, shotguns being the most in need of ammo.

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And here’s another post again about Zealot and how weak he is, but even the main argument boils down to numbers - as mentioned before, numbers are not an indicator at all. How many times have I played as a Zealot, I had a Psyker/ Soldier/ Ogryn with damage numbers around 200k in my team, while all the DPS had 500+, and I never once felt that they were weak. And here’s a little secret - there are support Zealots who may have low damage numbers, and I also never felt that they played poorly. If you are interested in numbers and if they don’t show the desired result in DPS builds on the Zealot, there are 2 options here:

  1. Either you are playing inefficiently in this build.
  2. Either the team plays in such a way that you cannot stand out, and everyone has roughly the same damage (which is good, as it means everything is balanced).
    And the third bonus option: there is another DPS character whose build potential is much better realized.
    That’s another point. If you are uncomfortable playing in close combat, maybe you should consider not playing the Zealot? Or learn to use his mobility. Whether to take offense at this or not is your choice, I’m just saying it as it is.
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Honestly I think that the ranged component should be removed and put on a side node

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I had a similar topic bemoaning suppression because it makes me think of Zealot as a better ranged candidate than Veteran while being a strong melee fighter for no cost. Seriously Dance of Death, Annointed in Blood, Fury of the Faithful demoting armor and giving ranged +25% attack speed, Inexorable keystone. What do we have similar for Vet? Agile Engagement and a bunch of weakspot/suppression nodes. Or 2 seperate elite and ogryn nodes, one buried in the otherwise garbage left tree…seriously, gunslinging is so much more fun on Zealot atm. Especially with dumpstered ammo economy.

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Makes topic and gets 100% comments disagreeing with OP.

Instead of responding to those points makes a whole new thread to try and justify bad take.

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Yes, but ranged has a cost, melee doesn’t (if you know what you’re doing at least)

And that’s an issue why ?

Zealot has less peak damage in most mission, but it also has the most clutch potential of the 4

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My Eviscerator Zealot can also charge DIRECTLY into areas that are highly concentrated with ranged enemies and absolutely clean house. If I tried rushing melee in the same situation with my Shovel Veteran I’d lose, like, half of my health.

Zealot melee is too risky? Pfft.

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Want reward?

There you go, just few lines above.

Zealot has probably highest potential to clutch games, and by clutch, i don’t mean 5 seconds of being last one to fall down, but several minutes of solo clearing bosses, hordes, specials, elites and picking up entire team afterwards.

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No, and maybe this is coming from a bias perspective i.e. as someone who played V1 and V2 and so got good at blocking, dodging, placement etc

I find melee is waaaaay safter than ranged. With my ranged out I have no block and my ability to keep enemies from hitting me is greatly diminished. With melee I can block and dodge and cleave a space around me. This is partly my lower skill in pure dodging as I have seen people in V2 dodge and range everything so thats on me.

But my experience is no, ranged is less safe and the worse the team is the less safe it is. Sure if my team and I shoot everything before it reaches us then ranged will seem OP but that relies on a good team and usually still ends up with melee when the space gets tight.

I guess the other option is, the rest of the team using melee end up giving the space to use mostly ranged, allowing someone to dump all their ammo in to enemies almost risk free.

I know people say this game is 50/50, but for me and my playstyle, again bias cos V1+2, I play more like 70/30.

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This is why survivalist was nerfed (should be removed)

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Almost as funny as that one freak that made 3 entire threads about being able to obt out of grimoire debuffs just because he was mad about his teammates on legend, picking up books while completely ignoring the fact that if you don’t want books, to simply go play cata.

All 3 threads where framed just a little differently and both times he was questioned why he made another thread about the same subject, he denied it. As if anyone was dumb enough to not see what’s going on.

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Next time, you can edit your OP topic in the same post.

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idk fam zel is my go to for chill maelstrom.
imo the ranking goes zelot - psyker - vet - ogryn.
But that’s beacuse I can cakewalk throuh aurics/maelstrom with Zelot and psyker I’m alright with vet
and kinda mid with ogryn and plays mostly non auric T5 when I need to do ogryn stuff.

So maybe it’s not the game and you are just bad with Zelot.
If there only was an option in the game to pick a character that fits your playstyle

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Complete nonsense

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This is a problem with Psyker right now, not Zealot.

And while maybe damage might be different, a melee player is still important. At the end of the day it is still a team game. I believe in most set ups you need at least 1 “front liner” to be able to stop hordes and tie up melee elites so that the squishier ranged focused team mates can output their dps.

Additionally ranged does have a cost, either in sustainability, durability, or both. Psyker and Veteran are both very squishy. If you take a bad position, even with a ranged build, you can find yourself dead very quickly.

Ogryn trades some significant melee damage and some sustainability to go full ranged, as well as being extremely ammo hungry.

I do agree Zealot doesn’t have amazing build variety. It’s pretty much 1 playstyle for the 3 keystones and that’s it. But personally I don’t have a problem with Zealot being unable to be more ranged focused than Hybrid, as that place as been taken by pseudo support with Booking.

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That 1 front liner also sets the pace as my buddy says, which is an important additional role and makes things smoother, assuming a competent player.
Hel, I’ve taken on that role as a shouty vet only to keep things moving, and there are many times I wish I coulda switched to a zealot or ogryn in the lobby just to be the front-line melee.

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