make the power maul charge automatically with a certain heavy attack buildup and i’ll use it 
3 Likes
Any serious discussions about balance must include nerfs when needed. In the real world every change costs money & time & risks bugs, you can’t infinitely keep buffing every single variable in the game every time there’s a problem. Instead, you adjust the outliers up or down as required. Hence, nerfs and buffs.
Anyone who doesn’t get this is like that dog going “no take only throw!”.
My suggestions: (Disclaimer: Darktide is a deceptively complex game, more than I think anyone here including myself actually understands, some of these ideas will be bad or miss crucial details)
- Plasma - Reduce cleave and lose the auto heat sink on light shots
- Bolt Pistol - Fix the bugged recoil & wonky aim. Slightly increase its AoE dmg.
- Boltgun - ADS has some of the same wonk as above, fix that too
- Hacker Shotgun - Increase spread & range slightly, especially for ADS
- Helbore rifles - Increase penetration/cleave, particularly on HB III. I’d also change the HB III’s special into a proper horizontal cleave instead. It was already the slowest & least ammo efficient, making it the worst match for the massive spawns. Why did they make that gap even larger by giving the other 2 a fantastic melee, then leaving the HB III without?
- Thunder Hammers - As single target weapons they can’t work in the increasingly aggressive spawn meta. → Make specials pre-chargeable (the longer you charge, the stronger it is) and remove the self-stun after a hit. This would front-load the delay, giving us agency over the timing and better address the meta post enemy contact, while still keeping the same overall balance and require minimal other changes.
- Flamer - Esp. after the FoF ranged nerf and prior enemy armor & hp buffs, the previous massive ammo nerf needs to go. Tbh you could probably double both the clip size & reserves.
- Shredder Autopistol - Nearly worthless since the Pinning Fire change, and it’s always been in an odd place where it wants to be a BAG except the BAGs just do the same job and more. I’d like to change it to something unique: Give it low max spread & recoil, reduce effective range, increase innate crit, stagger, and weakspot/critWS dmg, increase finesse dmg in ADS like shotties, and reduce ammo reserves. Basically, make it a mobile smg for mid ranges that absolutely shreds (pun intended) & severely disrupts anything with brutal dmg, but at a high ammo cost. Kinda like an ultra mobile rapid fire version a Kantrael shotty, but more focused on single target dmg. This way it would be uniquely strong for quickly storming in and spraying down priorities or softening & staggering large groups, but couldn’t sustain that power or disruption for long enough to upset the balance with other weapons.
- Kantrael Laspistol - The Accatran and its blessings & usual talents are intrinsically balanced around its accuracy, high RoF & crits per second. Kantrael being the same but slower naturally means less synergies with everything the whole weapon is about: speed & consistency. It’s hard to balance since blessings are shared within the family. Instead, I’d focus on their identity. Make Kantrael the definitive single target variant by buffing its base dmg, ADS finesse dmg, maybe even raise ammo consumption from 3 → 4.
3-variant weapons in general
About all of these on every class are just 3 different settings of “power vs. RoF & ammo”, which almost always ends up favoring either extreme. With melee variants its even more messy and one of them always ends up with both the worst moveset & dmg.
Yet we have exceptions like Achlys’s equip speed & on-hit talent and blessing synergies vs. Gorgo’s raw dmg & armor pen, where both of them are fantastic. But then Krourk is the one left out. Better, we have the 3 shotties: Kantrael for close range & raw base dmg, Agripinaa for long range & armor & extreme finesse buffs, with Lawbringer the middle yet not at all left out. Lawbringer’s special lets it temporarily exceed the spread & dmg of Kantrael with a perfect line of a spread for a cone of headshots, while its hip shots still have some spread and ADS has far less with much more range and finesse buffs to mimic the Agri. These weapons work bc they all play around with not just dmg vs. RoF & ammo, but also range, finesse, utility, and blessing & talent synergies.
I’d like to apply the same idea to the rest too: If the RoF variant has too many synergies, make the dmg variant that much stronger to compensate. Consider range, finesse, impact, a unique special, etc to have all 3 stand out on their own in something. With melee, horrid and useless movesets shouldn’t exist to begin but if they’re there, then increase the dmg, cleave, stagger, speed, even utilities like sprint efficiency, stamina, dodge count etc to compensate. Rather than just compare the weapons in a vacuum, look at the big picture of how they interact with their blessings, talents, builds and the game’s meta.
And above all, Fatshark shouldn’t be afraid to experiment. Making a bad weapon OP for a short while before patching it is imo a much smaller offense than sitting on it for 2 years doing nothing. But ofc, this assumes it WILL get patched, instead of being left OP for 2 years either (looking at plasma, tho it’s only been almost 1 year so far…).
11 Likes
reduce the recoil of bolt gun and increase its flak weakspot damage by 20 or something very minor
needing flak 4 puncture 4 to one tap a flak gunner is ridiculous
2 Likes
it wasnt even that bad before the last chastise change. thammer for me has two issues
- the long animation reset if you have to press sprint which would make you go through an akward animation reset from heavy 2 to heavy 1(the sprinting heavy)
- and now after the chastise change from armor downgrade to rending which makes it deal less carapace damage
if you run it without flak you’ll struggle to kill elites if you run it without carapace you will have trouble one tapping crushers
and before anyone says anything Yes Thammer should kill crushers if you invest a chastise charge+thrust+special activation and move yourself to a different area which most likely has 4 more crushers
**when i say thammer i mean ironhelm the other one needs a lot more work
If I’d point to a major reason why balance between weapons might be hard to achieve, it would be this. Why is Fatshark creating competition both between weapon groups and within the weapon group itself? Most of the time this’ll just favour the extreme versions in weapon groups, since there is most likely a talent, blessing or a complementing second weapon you can use to mitigate the downsides of the first chosen weapon.
Having a faster pace to change up weapons would be good, having a test server or similar (test psykhanium only?) would help with this immensely.
4 Likes
I had a silly crit build with devil’s claw and man stopper shotgun. Fully refunding your ability cooldown when hitting a horde was just broken, that interaction just had to go.
On topic:
Krourk Mk VI Cleaver - introduce a combo which allows you to access 3rd light attack in the following way: Weapon Special attack → Light3.
Obscurus Mk II Blaze Force Sword - it could use a horde clear combo. It’s a fun weapon for a challenge “melee” psyker run, but it lacks horde clear.
1 Like
I’d use tactical axes more if I could find one that did more sideways slash than overhead chop. I’m happy with the antax for example, but tactical axes feel a bit meh.
Obscurus move set is weird. Does it still do that uppercut on light 3? Anyway, dislike it, and the illisi is simpler to use and perfect for close range horde clear if you get swamped.
Shotguns: All could do with a bit more ammo. And I think I’d like special to act more like a mode switch, rather than a single shot change. Not so I can spam fire rounds (!) but on Agri and Lawb it’d be good to be able to use them one after the other sometimes without that clumsy animation between each shot. I’m not sure it needs that to balance it.
first, the topic is about weapons that need to be buffed. Not weapons that need a nerf.
Precision: I won’t even try to list underpowered weapons for psykers and ogryns cause I don’t play them enough.
Considering this, here my list:
Thunder hammer (both MK)
Shock & awe must be reworked, it is totally useless actually and should give the possibility to clean hordes. The weapon is labelled Crowd Control (this gives some special effects that you can see on gamelantern). However, it does not feel like a crowd control weapon.
I would add blessings to the pool (and still shock & awe need a rework). A blessing that could increase the attack speed of the weapon, a blessing that would also increase cleave.
AIG (Agri and Graia)
Considering Columnus. the others AIG are really under the Columnus. While I think Columnus should be a close range weapon, I would like that others are for middle range (graia) and sort of long range for agri. So these weapons needs to be balanced together, MK5 nerfed (good at close range, bad when not used at close range), while others MK buffed a little.
EDIT: close range should be reverted to 8 meters…
Agripinaa Mk XIV Quickdraw Stub Revolver
Do something… this gun is so much a garbage that nothing can be proposed. Give it an identity and a niche. Actually it is the useless gun of this game.
Maybe more damages?
Tactical Axe
As the AIG, I have to precise that tactical axes should be balanced after the brutal momentum blessing is reworked. But then, TA need a serious buff. We know that daggers with the stealth zealot build are too strong, however a dagger without this build is good. Tactical axe are good with the same build (and not too strong like the dagger is with the same build) and bad without it.
For this weapon, I think (maybe and this is just an idea) that an increase of the heavy hits damages could make it better. But not sure of what has to be done for this weapon.
Shock Maul
I find them a little underpowered. But have not tested them intensely so cannot make a right proposal.
Godwyn-Branx Pattern Bolt Pistol
Fix the headshots registered as body shots and everything is ok (but still, zorona needs a nerf about rending and cleave).
Accatran Mk VIIa Recon Lasgun
This one is a little behind the others recon lasguns. It requires a slight increase of damages.
Accatran MG Mk II Heavy Laspistol
Considering the Kantrael Mk X Heavy Laspistol, this one is really weak. I would not be in favor of a damage increase, however I would like that they give it more ammo and maybe a burst fire.
Artemia Mk III Purgation Flamer
I was totally against the ammo nerf for this weapon, but I am sure I don’t want that we see, again, 50% of zealots with this gun. The flamer is fine actually, in my opinion. (and yes I use it)
But I like the idea to see something done to permit to put flames on floor. I think a new blessing is the right idea.
Ius Mk III Shredder Autopistol
I liked the proposition to see this gun an unarmored deletion gun. So a little cleave against them. I think the idea would be good if this weapon is good against maniac, unarmored, unyielding and infested and would suffer of a weakness against carapace and flak.
Braced autoguns (all)
Revert fire frenzy to a blessing that increase fire rate.
4 Likes
I could do with like a hair
Like just, y’know, a hair
just a lil more ammo to lug around with that boltgun
2 Likes
Not really sure there’s anything worth nerfing currently. Honestly the last thing I felt needed any nerfing was Assail’s original incarnation (largely because it could totally replace the need for an actual ranged weapon and was able to be fully fleshed out at very low levels). Beyond that I don’t think there’s anything that really needs adjustment downwards, most everything feels within the margin of “acceptable variance”, I think doing so on stuff like the Columnus or Plasma is going to generate far more player angst than any issues the current state of things is causing. I think the Revolvers are the closest thing, but that’s more because they feel like they got hamfisted into Darktide as something a dev liked from another game and fill design space that should be more appropriately filled by more setting-appropriate weapons like the Bolt Pistol, as opposed to being overpowered or anything on their own.
My big bugbears were the Recon Lasguns, which now finally have appropriate ammo stocks.
Some of the weapons I find need assistance
Bolters: These are just too awkward, too clumsy, too slow to feel fun, though I felt this back when people thought they were OP as well.
Flamer: Much as with the bolter, it’s too clumsy and slow, and it takes too long to put things down.
Thunder Hammers: Again, too clumsy to feel fun to use.
Helbore Lasguns: If it’s not basically one-shot headshotting most everything, I feel forced to ask “why” with this weapon. It hits harder than the other lasguns, but not enough to clear things faster much of the time, and consumes more ammo to boot.
Kantrael Lasguns: Very ammo efficient…but don’t feel like they pack enough punch. Can shoot all day, but just don’t put things down very fast. I think these suffer from relics of old talent design.
2 Likes
Not the topic but plasma gun, zorona revolver, void strike (or maybe psyker build), dagger WITH stealth build deserve a nerf or a correction
There are two ways to buff a weapon. Remove weaknesses or add/increase strengths.
In the real world removing weaknesses is best for efficiency so it is instinctive to suggest that strategy. In a game it just means everything feels the same and there is no variety. In a balanced game a weapon with no weaknesses is a weapon with no strengths either.
I would prefer the weaknesses were counterbalanced with strengths. It’s harder for devs but it makes the game more interesting.
4 Likes
agreed, the reason i love my karsolas right now is that it allows me for some real unique style.
no other melee lets me slide that fluidly with attack patterns mixed in and feels so natural.
shield might be more efficient in the overall scheme of things but karsolas right now is the way for me.
and both effective weapons show a different peak at for what they are good for.
the shield: in your face action, defang ranged enemies with taunt talent and sustainable damage while being in the enemies face.
the pickaxe: fast fluid transition between engagements or groups of enemies, keep toughness regen through the flow of things rather than hammering heavy attacks down the enemies throat.
both yield the same result for me, both are highly effective on their own way, one is just more natural to my aggressive playstyle.
i’d use the paul too if it was an over the top “wifebeater” with a power cord.
the kind of fkk that incoming damage i’ll have them dead before they kill me frenzy.
thing right now feels still like a wet noodle with no oomph to it whatsoever.
1 Like
Late but here are some of my suggestions.
Flamer - Revert the nerf on it’s reserve ammo and magazine size, hell I can’t help but wonder how OP the pre-nerf Flamer would be in the face of the health/armor buffs the enemies have enjoyed in conjunction with FotF only working on melee now. Failing that, it’s unique blessings need work, first and foremost fix Overpressure so burn stacks are affected and bring up the max bonus from 5% to 10% so it’s not a poor man’s Blaze Away anymore. Lastly, giving it the ability to cake surfaces with flames like enemy Flamers would be a lot of fun.
Shredder Autopistol - Buff Pinning Fire’s max buff from 25% to 50%, it’d still be half as strong as it was prior to the nerf that sent it to the trash while being a big improvement to what it is now. This’d also have a nice knock-on effect in giving Boltguns some more bite.
Bolt Pistol - Along with fixing the buggy recoil and aim, increase the base damage/armor penetration just enough for Gunners/Shotgunners to go down with two hits to the body or one to the dome.
Boltgun - Same as the Bolt Pistol, that in conjunction with the Pinning Fire buff and buffing it’s magazine size to an even 20 would give Plasma a run for it’s money as an armor cracker/elite killer.
Headhunter Autoguns - Increase the burst fire between all 3 marks from 3/2/1 to 5/4/3 while adjusting the magazine size to match the new burst fires. As they are now, there’s not much you can do with them that you can’t do with a Hellbore or even an Infantry Lasgun.
Stubbers - Revert the ammo nerf. Let us Gun-lugger enjoyers Dakka as Bob and Gav would have wanted.
5 Likes
paul and several other ogryn weapons will perhaps be the largest benefactors of the itemization overhaul. especially if the pickaxe is a sign that the developers have calmed down on the notion of giving the 2nd melee oriented character access to powerful melee blessings.
but pickaxes succeed in all three being good because the different versions are actually different and not just the same moves oriented differently. the branx will always have the highest damage. the karsolas will always have the fastest frame data. the borovian will always hit the most hit mass per attack.
5 Likes
@FatsharkStrawHat @FatsharkJulia Do we even know if the development team even has plans to tackle weapon balancing in the future?
5 Likes
This isn’t a weapon per se, but I wanted to mention it anyway; Brain Rupture (/Brain Burst):
Any one of these changes would be nice to see:
- Charge isn’t reset when someone else kills your BR target
- Slightly faster charge, at least vs. elites/specials
- Slightly more damage vs elites (eg. 2 pops instead of 3 on a crusher)
- Reduced peril (especially if you don’t reach the actual pop)
It would make BR feel so much better IMO, and most of them would make having your BR target inevitably stolen by a Vet headshot less frustrating as it wouldn’t punish the blue-balled Psyker the way it does today.
4 Likes
Scale charge duration to the health of the target (with a cap) so that any non-monstrosity is a one shot if you’re willing to channel the brain burst for long enough.
1 Like
Boltpistol: Reduce the recoil, decrease spread on the second and third shots. It honestly feels like a gambler’s weapon without doing the Boltgun ADS trick and if I have to do that to make the weapon work then I might as well go use the boltgun outright.
Flamer: Dark blue flames to style on Psykers. JK. Maybe an ammo buff. I have always felt the Flamer to be totally redundant given that Purgatus exists so a buff that grants the Flamer a unique and powerful feature over the Psyker’s infinite flamethrower would be perfect in my eyes.
Boltgun: Reduce the pullout time slightly. I’ve never bought into the narrative that it sucks given it’s proven reliable for my purposes but I wouldn’t mind a little bit of QoL.
Thunder Hammer (thinking of Crucis here): Reduce the awkward sluggishness of the heavy attack chains. Self-stun is annoying because of ghost hits and awkward misses but I’d put up with it rather than shelve the weapon entirely if I didn’t feel so vulnerable heavy attacking hordes.
Hacker Shotgun: Slightly better spread values at Close Range. Fix the awful ADS bug that causes the camera to jitter.
Shredder: Dual wield. That’s right, I said it. Fight me.
There are other weapons I think in an underwhelming state but these few are very interesting weapons and I am certain the game would be in a better state if they were improved. I couldn’t say the same for the rest with confidence.
I’m normally a bit sceptical about requests for pistol/melee dual wield but this I really like the sound of.
1 Like