Lawbringer shotgun makes nothing right

I really wanted to like it, but it’s useless at heresy+ (both with vet and zealot)

It simply doesn’t feel like a shotgun.
It feels like more like a VERY short ranged rifle, than a shotgun. Meaning, the spread is too low. And since it has no piercing, the dmg is too low too, also the “special” ammo is terrible to deal with hordes, you can only kill 4 or 5 enemies with one shot and again, no piercing at all. Having to load each special shell manually to fight a horde makes it unreliable.

The easiest way to fix this weapon is to make the default shot have more spread AND more pellets, so you can hit more enemies with it and deal with hordes better.
The special ammo should be either an armor piercing slug, or an explosive shell. So you can kinda deal with things that are thougher than poxwalkers.

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We could for sure have an alternate version of the weapon but this version is great as it is to me.


Great for what? Please adress the points I made

shotgun is a horde clear weapon. Really shouldn’t be using it on sharpshooter. I know murphy’s law is in play here that anything that can happen will happen, so I am not blaming the player on this one. I am blaming developer for making it possible.

You want it to be something different it is is all.
For once we don’t get spread shot Doom forced legacy in a game with a shotgun, it’s great and can be used even on snipers if needed with careful aiming.


It SHOULD be a horde clearing weapon! The problem is that it works horrible for that. An autogun makes a better job on that matter. That’s why I think it neads more spread and pellets.
Certainly a sharpshooter shouldn’t be using it, but there it is.

That’s my point precisely, I want it to be something different than what it is because its crap.
Sure, you can use it to kill a sniper, you can also use almost ANY other gun for that… except some autoguns, does it make sense to you that the default fire of a shotgun is more precise than some autoguns?

Still, it’s totally fine that you want to use it for precision shots… that’s why I’m saying it should have a better spread shot for hordes AND a slug as special ammo so you can deal with whatever you want that is far away. Right now its mediocre at both jobs. I’ve only seen 1 person other than me using a shotgun on heresy or damnation.

And that is also my point exactly : YOU think it’s crap because of its current role.
Other people don’t.

To each his own.
You do not see a lot of complaints about current shotgun as you see autoguns and headhunters.

Hence the possibility of having a shotgun variant.


Since you didn’t adress my points, I have no idea of what is it’s current role for you. Explain me what is it good for in your opinion, tell me in what this weapon excels in comparison to others.

I don’t care if people complain or not, they just don’t use it in the game. This is because there is no good reason to pick this weapon over any other. Even the revolver is better, and it’s very bad compared to most guns, which pains me because I love it.

I don’t mind having a variant if people like the current one, but I don’t think that’s the case even, like I’ve said I don’t see people using it on heresy+ BUT I do see people using autoguns.
Still the more variety the better I guess, I’m not opposed to having more variants for the shotgun, but since there isn’t any…

You just don’t seem to understand what you wrote is just your opinion.

It simply doesn’t feel like a shotgun.

Feel is the key word here.

It feels like more like a VERY short ranged rifle, than a shotgun.

Once again, feels.
It IS not very short range in my experience, it’s very effective at close, medium and can still hit targets at long range when you really need to take a shot at something.

Meaning, the spread is too low

You want a spread shot, it’s not. I personally am happy it escapes the Doom shotgun legacy.

And since it has no piercing, the dmg is too low too,

Shotgun damage is great to me. More would really make it overpowered.

also the “special” ammo is terrible to deal with hordes, you can only kill 4 or 5 enemies with one shot and again, no piercing at all. Having to load each special shell manually to fight a horde makes it unreliable.

Shooting 4-5 enemies with one shot seems great when you need to.
In practice, I also don’t find it very efficient. Pretty sure I can already align headshots to have multiple kills already.

Anyway, all you wrote is just your own feeling of the gun. You can totally not like it.
I don’t see many arguments there besides your personal feedback about how you don’t enjoy it.

Not really interested in pursuing this so I’m gonna use forum functions to do so.


Congratulations, you still can’t tell me on what this weapon excels compared to others. If you don’t want to answer to this discussion anymore, I’ll leave my answer for other people.

Effective for WHAT exactly? AGAIN what does this weapon do that other weapons can’t do way better at short, medium and long range?

I don’t need it to be extremely poweful, I need it to excel at something to make me pick it up over other weapons. No piercing? Fine by me! Make it actually good against hordes. It’s mediocre at everything, if I wanted to clear a horde I would pick a torrent autogun, if I wanted precision, I would pick the revolver, and so on…

Seems terrible to me when hordes are made of 70+ enemies. Consider that you must load every special ammo shot individually, not worth it. It’s way more efficient to use the powersword… or almost any melee.

Does that word invalidate the fact most people don’t use the weapon in high difficulties because it doesn’t excel at anything? No.
The bolter does everything this weapon does, but way way better, and it even has more ammo. No I don’t think the bolter should be changed, I think this weapon needs to work differently to make it a worthy choice.

disagree strongly on both ! i think its terrible vs hordes and it has fantastic synergy with the vets reload perks

HI! i love the Shotgun its a regular in both my zeal and vets loadout.

first - combo of its speed and tight spread means for me if i walk into a room and theres 10 las gunners spread around at mid distance there is no other weapon that comes close for speed and ease of headshot one round kills , the accuracy is pinpoint, but has a spread to give some forgiveness and the damage for imperfection to be fine as the old saying goes, quantity has a quality all of its own.

on the vet it synergises fantastically with reload skills , you can do half reloads and roll the vets ultimate (illumiante las scabs version) continuosly
on the zeal it covers the inherant weakness of the evisc im probably using the lack of a good stagger special, if 4 ragers appear around a corner few quick rounds into the bodies is going to put the all on the floor and give me room to mop them up.

likewise a single zoomed round will stumble even a reaper at long range or single tap a sniper

and to top it all off the is it duck shot? the special when fired at head hieght through a horde racks up a respectable body count and a couple of rounds will kill as many as a vets grenade and people love them.

basically its a fast accurate but forgiving weapon great at all ranges capable of dealing with las gunners ,specials and elites with speed and ease

sorry we disagree here as well, i dont play damnation i have no idea how useful it is or not but ill take your word on this. but i just dont think its relevant.

i think this is fallacy damnation isnt the pinnacle of balance its the opposite its where the systems and mechanics of the game are pushed furthest , your going to see more and and more aberations and failures in weapons class’s and skills.
in damnation i would expect to have to use specific builds , the right class’s and to have to cherry pick the best tools, i would expect standard playstyle to be restricted and more co ordinated extremes become essential.

its going to be the one month marker in a few days and yesterday was a post saying that only 0.3 % of people have completed one game of each mission at damnation .

im sorry but dmanation isnt the point its a tiny fringe activity. it can be your point , but to expect the game to be balanced to it? i think thats a long wait for a train that aint coming.


It’s easily the single strongest non ogryn stumble gun in the game with no particular weaknesses. I tend to switch between it and a revolver on my zealot for side arms. I prefer the revolver for the swap speed but the shotgun is better for when I don’t want to have to aim as much/want more reserve ammo.

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As a main Weapon it could be better but as a sidearm its great.

“A weapon designed for close quarter melee fighting.”

For me the weapons works really well when i weave some shots into my melee loop … stagger some special that is out of melee range etc.

And if the blessings from the link are correct, it also seems to be designed that way. Mostly melee with some shots in between to proc some blessings.

Looks good to me, but if you want to use it as your main weapon … yeah not that great.

yes it is terrible vs hordes (doesn’t mean it isn’t a horde clear weapon, just a bad one) and “reload synergy” while iit is beneficial for a weapon with an 11~ shot tube magazine and low reserve in a HORDE game to have some reload boosts, you are sacrificing the best grenade synergy perks in the game to still be mediocre at your job of counter range and worse at horde clear than if you just took grenade regen and took bleed application to synergize with your zealots and ogryns. Plasgun suffers from this at well but unlike the shotgun, it is still capable of counter ranged as long as you stick specifically to that task, and is better than the shotgun in every aspect.

I don’t care whether you agree with me or not, you’re free to use it in D3 where nothing really matters, but if you use this as sharpshooter in 4-5 you are griefing your team.

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oh damn . my apologies to all those i trolled then my bad didnt know

If you want it only to stagger specials that are out of melee range, the revolver does a better job +it’s faster + precision +damage (specially after the patch)

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It is an amazing overpowered sniping shotgun. I love it.

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@Zoralink Now the revolver does more dmg and has more ammo, and as always, staggers a lot.
I agree that it stumbles enemies, but that’s all it does well. I can do the same with other weapons, or I can just kill the enemy before it reaches me. Sure its nice to throw a bullwark to the ground with it, but that’s really not enough.


The damage on the little spread it has is trash, useless. Check how many shots do you need to kill elites or specials with that “forgiveness” damage.

Literally almost any other weapon that’s not a plasma rifle. Most enemies literally stand still while aiming at you, you really don’t need the “spread” of this shotgun to land a headshot. Also you are most certainly not always killing a gunner of one headshot on heresy+, let alone all the elites or specials.

2 rounds will kill as many as a vets grenade huh? If you are playing vet, you have weapons that can deal with a horde better that the “duck shot” without aiming to the head nor needing to load each shot individually. Plus you have the (maybe infinite) grenades.
If you are playing zealot just engage the horde on melee.

What bcna said. Not worth it for the little power the shotgun has. I would say that the reaload perks on vet are only worthy on the bolter or the plasma rifle.

I do think it’s relevant. A good weapon needs to be useful in all difficulties, but this one starts lacking on heresy. Look I have completed successfully runs on heresy and damnation with the shotgun, if you are good and you have a good team, it’s totally possible to do, but you grind the double. I wouldn’t go as far as saying that you are griefing your team but… there are plenty of other options that would make your life (and teammate’s) better.

It is indeed a very nice sniper rifle. Would be nice to have a shotgun.