I’ve been pondering why it’s feeling so bad and it pretty much comes down to the fire Shell’s lack of instant damage versus all of the new front loaded damage out there.
Before the fire stacks at a distance got nerfed (which they really shouldn’t be high at a distance) I essentially had the ability to get some fire stacks rolling at a distance that would soften things up really well once it made it to me… now though - I find myself using the secondary shell less and less. It’s just not worth it. It’s not worth it to the point where it’s actively a detriment if I do load one and need to use it at close range the poor damage it does seems worthless.
TLDR: the flame shell is bad for everything short of close quarters clearing of chaff.
Proposed solution: I think shotguns as a whole need a revamp. Shotguns shouldn’t have “special shells”. I think that the kantrael should use only fire shells, the agrippina should only use slugs and the lawbringer just buckshot. This would free up the special button to be used for flashlight. Further more the flame shells need to have more front loaded damage in order to compete with all the new instant damage from sources like assail.
Earnestly, i ask you, why would you remove high utility tools from the shotgun kit in favor of flashlights? The lawbringer special shell allows me to slap hordes out of existence now while preserving the general short-mid range utility of my buckshot. The buckshot on the agripinaa is what allows me to flex into panic horde clear. By removing this functionality from either you kill their multi-tool quick draw nature. Which is why i chose them over the archeotech revolver at all.
At this point the slug shotgun barely justifies itself over the revolver. But I have a feeling that I’m coming from a veteran perspective and you’re speaking from zealot.
I’m just tossing out ideas. Fat shark can try to balance out the 3 different buckshots patterns and the 3 different special shells. It just seems like it would make more sense to go the killing floor route of having shotguns with 1 type of ammunition selected for balancing purposes.
Thats mostly because the revolver is a plasma pistol with the wrong cosmetics at this point. Its a joke how strong the weapon is. I’m all for big iron go bang but cmon now. 2 shotting crushers and reapers? Cleaving whole rows of poxwalkers? 1 tapping pretty much everything else? Its so OP its ridiculous.
I feel that somehow I’m just drawn to combat shotgun threads, much as @Reginald clearly is
Number 1. I don’t get the Lawbringer. Never have. Reginald likes it, but I don’t think the special mode spread damage justifies it. If it did 100 damage to 10 targets then maybe? And in regular fire mode, well, I use all my shotguns ADS unless it’s backs to the wall spray and pray and it’s just not as good as the others. Poor range. Poor damage. He is better than me though so YMMVY
Number 2: Agripiina (sp?) is a long standing favourite for the sniper mode, but I just don’t see the ammo reserve and ammo scarcity in p13+ ever making this viable. Plus, and increasingly so, I’m noticing that a target takes 4 hits to go down (and I can see the markers, I’m not missing). Really? With a shotgun? And grounded targets seem almost impervious to damage so again… I think that’s a hitbox bug, but it’s not acknowledged.
Number 3: Kantrael. Those fire rounds … I don’t really find much utility in. Maybe bulwark stagger. But when the primary fire mode has so much damage vs what appears to be much less with that fire round, I stick to primary. Softening up a horde with a shotgun, when you’ve so little ammo in general, just feels a bit of a waste.
Roundabout way of saying: Since patch 13 I’m running with the pistol. I don’t like doing that, but it just does everything the shotguns I liked (-lawbringer) did, but with faster movement, and more damage. Sure reload is pesky, but I’m not saying my choice is clear cut & the right one…
If the shotgun becomes playable, yes please! But I recall a FS Dev saying attachments are for CoD games
Flashlights help immerse me into the level. The hidden shadows, illuminating the darkness, the isolation of a spotlight, these elements help me to enjoy the gameplay more. Also, If lights out missions make a comeback, I don’t play enough to know if they’re in rotation, it would be a nice option.
I used to main on vet with it before the class overhaul. The free reload allowed for 20+ consecutive shots, very high burst and used to be very accurate at 50 meters 1-tapping snipers on the hardest difficulties. Very niche playstyle that has lost its value (to me) since the rework.
I just wish the lawbringer had bleed on special permanently to give it its own niche. Specing into Scattershot/Flechette takes up two blessings for very little gain in return. Other shotguns are fine i feel. They were fine on patch 13 launch and they’re even better now, even if most other weapons got buffed to ridiculous levels.
I’m genuinely having a hard time using the Lawbringer’s special to slap hordes–its special duckbill shot only ever seems to kill 2 or 3 groaners per shot even when I’m aiming at their heads. Do you have any recommendations on how to build one? I tried one with Fire Frenzy and Death Spitter but that didn’t accomplish much, while my Full Bore version was at least decent for putting down disablers. Man Stopper and Scattershot, I’m guessing?
Pre patch 13 the agripinaa was my vermintide handgun. Had it setup to 1shot majority of specials and elites on my zealot. With slugs I could 1shot gunners/shotgunners in the chest which was great. Couldn’t 1shot ragers and flamers but with No Respite blessing it was 1 slug + 1 or 2 taps – still is.
Post patch with the general enemy hp increase I cannot do so. It’s always a 1 slug + 1 tap except vs Trappers and Bombers. The others do go down in 1 tap on a headshot though.
But also with Patch 14 the damage is fine right now. I can 2 or 3 tap buckshot most specials/elites so I don’t need to rely so much on the slug anymore. Interestingly I can get very close to 1 tap buckshot headshots on gunners/shotgunners but not enough unless I change perks. I can 1 tap headshot with the Kantrael, but it shoots a lot slower. It’s also pretty close range where I’d rather casually rapid fire agripinaa shells than take my time and aim.
Here’s what I’ve been using since forever. Should mention I usually have Anoint in Blood talent too.
Pretty sure that’s exactly what it does. 12 pellets, horizontal line, each gets around 100-200 damage, and cleaves 4 targets. The ADS has solid range, about 40m is right around where it starts to be real bad. Its excellent in Patch 14 but its not a revolver, for sure.
I vibe this. Really I do. I strongly support this in fact. But I think it should just be its own button at this point. Whether the light is helmet or gun mounted. It shouldn’t be a “special”
Here is my testing results and live gameplay as well. I want to clarify that I am not at all saying that the lawbringer is amazing. Its good, usable, and very flexible as weapons go. Its a little on the weak side with its duckbill still, I think it should be a bit harder hitting than it is. But it still has solid utility and works fine for the job I need it for. I ran it for several games and the ammo supply is finally sufficient (though hungry) and it can pop shooters on headshot at reasonable ranges with 1 shot, occasionally 2. With Maniacs its works great on specialists too. It fills the unusual role of quickdraw multi-tool. Does what I need across a swathe of unusual roles. But I really only see value in it for the thunder hammer in most cases. Or just cause I like the sound of it.
Enemy count is roughly 50 for groaners and poxwalkers.
I did a little experimenting myself and built a Lawbringer specialized to delete hordes–+damage vs poxwalkers/groaners, +infested, Scattershot, Man Stopper, and stuck it on a Fury Zealot build. It seems to annihilate poxwalkers and groaners with the duckbill shot, while taking about 3 or 4 ADS shots to kill flamers at ~15m in the Psykanium. I will be pairing it with the Relic ult and a Crusher Maul, but at some point I’d like to combine it with a Chainaxe with a Bleed blessing. I’ll report back with my findings.
I played with Lawbringer’s special a bit after the patch, it seem pretty good on paper but in actual gameplay it’s really hard to pull off effectively in most situation.
Loading special shot require a bit of time and you then also have to find perfect angle to shoot while enemies are pressuring you between all that unless you have tight corridor or your teamate is shielding enemy off you, on top of not being able to use your normal shell in emergency situation. I’d rather just use my melee instead even if it’s Combat Blade.
Maybe it would be better if special shot is just alternate mode which change every shell load after that into special shell, so you could spam it more without down time.
Honestly all human shotgun still feel a bit meh to me even after the buff, compared to Revolver or Plasma at least. Ogryn’s kickback really rock right now though.
Seconding this. Full Bore and No Respite synergize extremely well with the Agripinaa and lets it do good work as a medium-range sniper.
Full Bore won’t necessarily apply power bonuses to your opening slug shot, but it will mean your follow up ADS buckshots will be noticeably more powerful, as will No Respite since few things in the game will not get staggered by the slug.
That said, even with the recent buffs to ammo pools and damage, I’m a little nervous about using the Agripinaa as a Veteran’s main tool for annihilating ranged enemies. I see it more as a sidegrade for a Revolver-wielding Zealot. It trades raw damage per shot and cleave for faster rate of fire, larger magazine, more ammo, and the ability to open up bulwarks with the slug shot.