I love the combat shotguns, but with the current state of the game, I definitely agree with others that they aren’t as effective as they used to be. They don’t stand out particularly well compared to the double barrel, revolvers, and bolters. Plus they’re not particularly ammo efficient; on Damnation, sometimes groaners take up to two shots and shotgunners can take as many as five at 5 meters?
A youtube vid I was listening to mentioned that they’d like to see them just use the special shots by default, and I thought that is a fantastic idea. One of my favorite features of the lawbringer was using the duckbill shot on a pack of gunners at waist level and watching a bunch of torsos explode into the air, or at head level on poxhordes to pop the front row of heads. It was very dramatic, and cinematic, but these days it almost never works that well. I have to drop down to Heresys to get that old feel from them again.
I’d love to see the combat shotguns get some love, with the lawbringer shooting the duckbill choked shots by default, the kantrael shooting the flaming shot by default, and the agripena shooting the slugs by default, then just make the special a butt-stroke or something. I think it would give the combat shotguns a lot more character and help them stand out as viable weapons in the current state of the game. I doubt the stats would even need to be fiddled with; without having to single load all of the special shots, that would bring the damage up to par with the majority of really solid reliable guns in the game.
Kantrael would be bad then.
Lawbringer would have no purpose except horde clearing.
Agri would be OP.
That’s the problem. You need more ammos to achieve the same, so it takes more time than with an other gun… and still you have less ammos.
Something is wrong here.
I’ll put aside that this is kind the third damn shotgun thread when y’all could just comment on the ones already up.
I’ll admit I haven’t used it a heap but is double barrel really that much better? Its effective range seems pretty crippling for any degree of flexibility. I feel like everyone was saying it was mid not long ago.
That curiosity aside I ain’t jumping back into this topic. I think shotguns are mostly fine albeit could use a good bit more base cleave so manstopper feels less necessary. I’ll leave it at that since maybe that’s a buff we could agree on.
I agree. I would give them a different bonus than special shots by default, but for sure they need a buff
Low range, small magazine, slow reload, small ammo pool (I can not even use them like anti-hordes tool), slow rate of fire… all seriously penalizing malus, but someone may think: “Ok, but at least they reign in their niche: short range”
Instead nope! Because the damage wich is just “ok” (they may need also 3 shells to kill a simple Gunner!), the slow rate of fire, the frequent “dead times” (like reloading)… make sure that, in the same time, I reaper much more kills with any of the meta weapons…
…and nope, I’m not talking about one single op weapon wich make no context. I’m talking about numerous weapons. InfantryAG, BracedAG, Recon Lasgun, Boltgun, Boltpistol, Plasmagun, Revolver… they are all weapons that totally outshine shotguns
I would prefer Agri shooting less powerful slugs by default. Especially since FS made the basic shot, especially the hipfire shot (gets a big reduced finesse bonus which is stupid and sucks) so anemic. For people who like the Bolt Action type gameplay, they should add an actual Militarum Sniper or Long Las (just without a big scope). The other 2 should remain as special loaded shells.
Didn’t bother reading the other threads, but I will say at least on Vet it is. Agri doesn’t compare well to it as they serve different purposes, but Agri falls behind compared to most other single target preciscion ranged weapons. For Lawbringer and Kantrael they both are fine, but if I am bringing a shotty I want close range damage and the double barrel brings that in spades. Additionally the double barrel fits perfectly into the WS playstyle and is imo one of the most fun and interesting builds to play in the game currently.
Haven’t played too much on Zealot, but with how Dance of Death works having less more damaging shots is better and helps extend its reach.
Psyker Warp Splitter and Surety of Arms means the Double Barrel is a no brainer compared to the other 2 for the same reasons as vet.
Imo they also need some base damage increase and a nerf to no respite (or maybe not even a nerf to it) to make the 2 shot ranged BPs more forgiving. 3 shotting enemies at medium range feels awfully especially with their slow reload.
I don’t consider them to be omega underpowered but I do consider them to be outclassed in almost every way.
I honestly don’t agree with a lot of what you’ve said, but not in the mood to argue about it. No amount of spread reduction is going to make that aggressive damage dropoff after 8 m feel any less impractical than the other shotguns from my experience.
But instead of arguing I’ll just ask you to DM me your Vet build for it including shotgun blessing/perks and I’ll go build it for myself and see if it changes my mind. By WS specialist build I assume you mean generating one ammo back into clip with the auto reload sub node then ADS firing it then swapping back yeah.
I say DM because I feel like I’ve asked you for this build before but trying to find it in notification history sounds like a nightmare.
I don’t think Vet gets the spread reduction. I will say I do think a big part of double barrel is it has to be used with a high mobility melee weapon to get into position.
Mainly my point was if I want close range, I want double barrel. If I want close to medium, I will go with another option.
I don’t think so but I can DM. Might be an hour or so until I can get on a computer however.
In the current state the shotguns are ideal for builds that are more Melee w/ close Range support
Veteran commando builds that go wild on melee, my favorite using stealth and Catachan Devils Claw Sword
Zealot builds that use Fury Of The Faithful, Throwing Knives (unless you prefer to use grenades is ok too), using any melee and going 90-99% melee whilst keeping Shotgun (especially the fire shell one) on Standby is so fun to swap to
Nobody necessarily can take my word for it, most of it is all based upon some gamplay that varies between casual to hardcore. Was a hardcore Auric player, been not as on as often during my busiest work season lol
Forgot to mention Psyker, yet on Psyker it does incorporate the crit builds more