I’ve never understood why kruber’s sword and shield (SS) has only 120 block angle yet his mace/shield (MS) and all other shield combos (like for Bardin) have 180 block angle… It isn’t like the SS has a higher dodge distance or dodge count or something to make up for this. It is just worse for no reason. Also, it is using the exact same shield. Logically, they would have the same block angle. All that changes is the weapon. The shield is the same… I would recommend that they increase it to 180.
I never noticed the 120 push/block angle on the sword/shield. But I do believe that the sword/shield is the worst out of the 3 shield weapons, by far - that would definitely be part of the cause though I’m sure.
First off, let’s look at the niche the sword/shield fills (maybe someone who uses it more can correct me here if I’m wrong). It seems to be a crowd killing/crowd control hybrid - being able to knock enemies around, and kill them in the process. It’s actually a fairly unique weapon in this regard. The only problem is that you don’t really need both at the same time, and since it’s a weapon balanced around having both they are both sub-par.
The mace/shield is pure crowd control, one of the best weapons for that in the game imo. Axe/shield is hybrid between crowd control and dueling.
My suggestion would be to pick either the crowd control or the crowd killing aspect of the sword/shield and build upon it. Maybe increase the push/block angle and give more cleave or stagger to the sword attacks for CC, or increase damage but reduce cleave damage for CK.
Honestly I prefer the sword and shield over all the others. Have you played it since the changes in the big balance beta? It got a lot better. The armor pen on push stab and charge 2 are excellent, especially with headshots. The changes to the patterns mean you can do a push stab into charge 2 for quick armor takedowns, or you can do light one into charge 3 for great horde damage since charge 3 swings horizontal right at head level. Combined with bashing and generally having fast attacks makes it handle any situation well and it really shines when taking on mixed groups since you can keep everything staggered while taking out the armor and then mop up the rest.
I actually think the mace/shield is the worst of the three. The sword/shield has a little better AP (although now the mace/shield has a decent push atk) I believe and most importantly, it has the shield bash first just like the axe/shield. The hammer/shield and mace/shield have the shield bash second, which is why it is sometimes uncomfortable to play with them imo.
Once there are Ungor raiders in the Beastmen DLC we may have more of a use for shields. Who knows… But yeah the point is we really need to see a 180 block angle for the sword/shield unless there is some logical reason why it should have a much smaller angle even though its the same shield.
I’d confidently say S+S the strongest of the shield weapons. A+S is a bit behind, but that’s mostly because dwarf doesn’t really have any talents or skills that enhance it like Kruber does for S+S.
M+S and H+S types are likely candidates for being the worst weapons in the game. Particularly hammer, for the same reason that A+S isn’t as good as S+S.
I’m interested to know why you think this. I’ve never noticed that S+S has a smaller block angle than any of the other shield weapons, and I use A+S and S+S a LOT.
Oh yeah, I’m not saying OP is wrong, just that I’ve never noticed it. I’m not sure that increasing the block angle would make any noticeable difference in-game.
IMO the shields are as good as their light attacks. Which, I know is odd b/c so much of their power in in charged attacks and pushstabs, but I would rate the shields from best to worst: Axe, Sword, Mace/Hammer, and i would rate the usefulness of their lights in the same order, and I dont think thats a coincidence.
I think this comes down to to how inefficient and slow they are in dealing with multiple units under pressure b/c you have to sacrifice damage for control. B/c they are not mobile you cant dodge dance reliably so you end up hit trading more than you can afford, and more than seems right for a defensive weapon.
My suggestion to help shields is let them keep some block active (maybe 1/3 max stam) while light attacking.
I know that seems out there but it would let you actually hit trade efficiently by default allowing you to keep up dps cause you don’t have to stop and block/push/ shield bash charge attack.
I hope fat shark at least tries this internally or and hopefully tests it on a new balance beta at some point in the future.
The idea of having the shields continue to block to some extent even while you’re using light attacks is a great one. That would make them so much more useful. And it kinda makes sense anyway. Even while you’re using your weapon, your shield is still there and could theoretically protect you (albeit to a lesser extent). Maybe it could either block with only a little stamina like you said or perhaps it could simply reduce the incoming dmg a bit. Or at the very least it should reduce the stun time on your toon when you get hit badly.
Yes thank you. In real life shields are used to defend and attack at the same time so i agree it makes sense. I understand from a game perspective this easily could be too strong but i believe it could be balanced. Perhaps also making block cost reduction not apply to the block during lights or having it only block light attacks from enemies a la WHC passive.
As long as the shields are immobile weapons (i’m looking at you handmaiden and your possibly future 1.1+ dodge distance shield) they won’t be op as dealing with multiple elites or bosses isn’t easy with it.
